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I remember a discussion, that I think was on the "other place" about suppliers being able to remotely disconnect customers using the contactor built in to every smart meter. At the time I also remember there being firm assurances from suppliers that they would never use this remote disconnection facility, it was only there for use in extreme circumstances, like a repeat of the 1987 storm and power cuts, when being able to sequence the return of power would aid the network in starting up again after a major outage.

Just read this article: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63554879

A rising number of households are having their energy smart meters remotely switched to prepayment meters, the energy regulator has said.

Energy firms can use the technology to swap customers in debt to the more costly plan without needing a warrant.

Ofgem said it had received reports of "vulnerable customers being left without power for days or even weeks".

Kelly, from South London, whose meter was switched, said: "I suddenly only had £3 on my electric until payday."

Once a smart meter is installed, it is a much simpler process for a supplier to swap the customer into prepay mode at the push of a button, rather than having to apply for a warrant and install a physical box.

Whilst I can understand the desire to not allow customers to get into debt, the thing that really concerns me is that often (but not always) prepayment tariffs are a lot more expensive than credit tariffs, so they make energy more expensive for the very people that are struggling to pay for energy in the first place. The fact that suppliers can do this with no warrant, and hence no form of verification that what they are doing won't cause harm, very much bothers me. The article mentions that people are being remotely switched without their knowledge. What's going to happen the first time someone dies because their power has been cut off without warning? I had a relative that was dependent on an oxygen concentrator, and if his supply had been cut off like this there's a good chance he'd have died prematurely.

To be honest it shouldn't be allowed to happen at all.

There should be due process and an independent safety check that this is the right thing to do (as previously was done through getting a warrant).

Most of the energy companies I have dealt with have been very poor with customer service (the notable exceptions being Octopus and Yorkshire Energy - which went bust) and I hate to think what this will do to people.

I think the only thing that might act as a safety net is the priority register - but I am not sure it would.

It is interesting that the government can allow certain debts to rack up for people in trouble (and there by sacrificing parts of the economy) but they allow big companies like this to hold struggling people over a barrel.

I agree, there needs to be the same level of protection for those with smart meters as applies to those without them.

What's just as worrying is that the major emphasis on the adverts encouraging people to get smart meters is that they will save money, so there is a good chance that those already struggling with energy prices will be the people most likely to be influenced to switch to one.

Unless people change their habits smart meters aren't going to save money at all, the exception being those that, like many here, make best use of cheaper smart meter only tariffs.

The other thing that bothers me is the fact that many suppliers are pretty incompetent, anyway. I know of one person who's electricity was cut off for a day because their supplier accidentally sent a disconnect command to their meter in error. Luckily there were no consequences from doing this, but at the time it did make me wonder just what sort of checks there were in place to stop people being disconnected.

Personally, I think that prepayment meters should be charged at the Ofgem price cap rates or, if the supplier wishes, less and the extra costs of administering them being met by credit meter customers through a slightly higher unit charge.

I know that some will wince about subsidising others, but that is how the tax system works anyway.

John_S wrote: ↑Wed Nov 09, 2022 12:43 pm Personally, I think that prepayment meters should be charged at the Ofgem price cap rates or, if the supplier wishes, less and the extra costs of administering them being met by credit meter customers through a slightly higher unit charge.

I know that some will wince about subsidising others, but that is how the tax system works anyway.

I have no problem at all with that idea, and would go further and suggest that prepayment tariffs should be made cheaper than credit tariffs and only made available to people already in receipt of benefits. The idea of reducing energy prices for the most vulnerable and in need strikes me as a good one. As you rightly say, it's how our tax and benefits system works, anyway. The idea of making the most vulnerable pay more for energy than the wealthy strikes me as being just plain wrong.

Mp's need a memo on this & the initial statement of use, ..his will create more outcry, more distrust & less uptake of smart meters.

Can those affected sue as a class action?

Mr Gus wrote: ↑Wed Nov 09, 2022 1:15 pm Mp's need a memo on this & the initial statement of use, ..his will create more outcry, more distrust & less uptake of smart meters.

Can those affected sue as a class action?

I doubt any action can be taken, because the original idea that led to the remote disconnection capability in the UK came from a study after the 1987 storm as to how the grid load problem could be better managed in future. During that storm the UK came close to losing the grid completely, from a cascade failure as parts of the grid were close to overload as a result of storm damage, leading to power stations having to trip out. The fear at the time was that the grid had come close to having to do a "black start", something that's never been tried and no one knows for sure if it would work. One idea was to fit all homes with a remotely operated disconnect switch, so the grid could be started up at a low load and then the load increased gradually as power stations came back up, but reconnecting homes gradually.

The requirement that all smart meters have a remote disconnection capability probably morphed from the post-1987 work, I suspect. A few years ago the fact that smart meters can remotely disconnect consumers hit the media, thanks, I think, to the anti-smart meter lobby. At that time I remember the government (may have been OFGEM) giving an assurance that this would never happen, and that measures were in place to ensure that this capability was only ever used in extreme circumstances. TBH, I never trusted this reassurance at the time, and believe that the fact that suppliers are now using the remote disconnection capability on tens of thousands of consumers is with the tacit agreement of government.

I'm getting hounded / threatened by EonNext to get a smart meter fitted. I have 2 supplies here and one is on a smart meter but I don't want the other one on one as I object to the remote disconnection facility.

Regarding pre payment tariffs it's a difficult one. Their are good arguments on both sides.

How do the smart meters communicate? Is a signal jammer for that frequency available on Aliexpress?

smegal wrote: ↑Wed Nov 09, 2022 3:15 pm How do the smart meters communicate? Is a signal jammer for that frequency available on Aliexpress?

They use the mobile network, so any jammer would also disrupt mobile phones and any other device that connects using the network. The reason we couldn't get a smart meter to work here was just down to there not being a mobile signal, although our supplier at the time (SSE) did try hard to get the thing to work. We ended up getting the thing swapped out for an Economy 7 meter.