Smart meter / ToU tariff

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Stinsy
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Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2021 1:09 pm

Smart meter / ToU tariff

#1

Post by Stinsy »

Smart meter finally installed lunchtime today, after nearly 2 years waiting...

So I’ll finally be able to get on a ToU tariff. I’m gonna go for “Go Faster 3hr” if possible to maximise savings, but I can’t decide on the start time for the cheap period. 2030-2330 would be good because we tend to put the dishwasher on then anyway and it is a good time to fill up the batteries to cover overnight. On the other hand 0330-0630 would be better for charging the storage heater in the Mrs garden office. The PHEV (and EV currently order) doesn’t care when it is charged.

What do you guys think?

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12x 340W JA Solar panels (4.08kWp)
3x 380W JA Solar panels (1.14kWp)
5x 2.4kWh Pylontech batteries (12kWh)
LuxPower inverter/charger

(Artist formally known as ******, well it should be obvious enough to those for whom such things are important.)
Countrypaul
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Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:50 am

Re: Smart meter / ToU tariff

#2

Post by Countrypaul »

Doesn't your dishwasher have a time delay option? We tend to run ours from 01:00 BST** due to being on E7 by setting the start delay. It would allow you to sync to the 03:30 start time. Alternatively could you not use a Wifi switch (for example Alexa controlled) to start at a given time? Some dishwashers will resume if there is a power cut, so you could possibly start it off, tell Alexa/google/whoever to switch it off and then allow it to resume at a preprogramed time.

We tend to do washing during the day when the sun is shining in sumer but switch to overnight like the diskwasher in winter.

** Unfortunately during sumer when kids are at home we also have to run it during the day usually afternoon - when sunny if at all possible.
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nowty
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Re: Smart meter / ToU tariff

#3

Post by nowty »

For me its either as early as possible or as late as possible so the heatpump / storage heaters can be utilised to heat the house.

I'm on Go Faster 5hrs from 20:30 to 01:30.

I found on the standard 4 hr Go tariff, in winter I was overheating the main fuse getting all the power absorbed into EV, home battery, storage heater, heatpump, etc. Over 5hrs, its much more manageable with the main fuse much cooler, so the 3 hr tariff would not work for me.

A progress report for the trial is available here.
https://innovation.ukpowernetworks.co.u ... rt_v05.pdf
16.9kW PV > 109MWh generated
Ripple 6.6kW Wind + 4.5kW PV > 25MWh generated
5 Other RE Coop's
105kWh EV storage
60kWh Home battery storage
40kWh Thermal storage
GSHP + A2A HP's
Rain water use > 510 m3
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Stinsy
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Re: Smart meter / ToU tariff

#4

Post by Stinsy »

I don’t have a heat pump, and have a combi (so no immersion). I am planning to buy a small storage heater for the garden office (1.1kW), I can only charge my batteries at 3kW, and my PHEV can only charge at 3.6kW.

So that is 7.7kW plus 300-500W of “baseload”. There will be an additional 4kW when the 7.4kW-capable EV arrives. Still well with my main fuse rating.

I’m now leaning towards 4hrs starting 2030. That makes charging the batteries easier because the amount of charge will depend on the preceding day’s sunshine and they’ll be drained somewhat by the time the sun comes up the next day. The sacrifice will be that the storage heater will be charged many hours before the heat is needed but I’m planning to spend the cash to buy a brand new “High Heat Retention” model. I might even get an eddi to top the SH up from sunshine that would otherwise spill to the grid, but I’m not convinced there’ll be much power spilled (there hasn’t been previously).
12x 340W JA Solar panels (4.08kWp)
3x 380W JA Solar panels (1.14kWp)
5x 2.4kWh Pylontech batteries (12kWh)
LuxPower inverter/charger

(Artist formally known as ******, well it should be obvious enough to those for whom such things are important.)
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nowty
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Location: South Coast

Re: Smart meter / ToU tariff

#5

Post by nowty »

I have a gas combi but installed a 300 litre pre-heat tank which can be heated via my heatpump or twin immersions. Between April and Sept the gas combi is turned off and I rely on the heatpump to get the water to 50 degrees and then the immersions to heat it up the rest of the way to 60 degrees. When its summer and unlimited solar PV, I just use the immersions via the immersuns to heat the water up all the way.

Between Oct to March the gas combi is turned on and I limit the heating of the pre-heat tank to 40 degrees via the heatpump because the combi sometimes behaves erratically on pre-heated water above 40 degrees.

In winter the central heating is run on the heatpump when its cheap rate and sometimes on the batteries if its not too cold outside. But the gas is needed in the coldest weather. With the help of Ripple, I will also dump power at cheap rate to the storage heaters and this helps reduce the gas usage. I tried this two winters ago and it worked great but was more expensive than using gas but this coming winter I should get the help from the Ripple wind turbine so will try again on the storage heaters to displace more gas.

Sorry to say but gas needs to be more expensive to drive the right behaviours. That's not going to be politically popular but its got to happen in order to nudge people to heatpumps and more insulation. Maybe an annual escalator on the price of gas will be the least unpopular option. It worked for Petrol, at least for a few years before we had the national protests.
16.9kW PV > 109MWh generated
Ripple 6.6kW Wind + 4.5kW PV > 25MWh generated
5 Other RE Coop's
105kWh EV storage
60kWh Home battery storage
40kWh Thermal storage
GSHP + A2A HP's
Rain water use > 510 m3
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Stinsy
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Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2021 1:09 pm

Re: Smart meter / ToU tariff

#6

Post by Stinsy »

nowty wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 11:18 am I have a gas combi but installed a 300 litre pre-heat tank which can be heated via my heatpump or twin immersions. Between April and Sept the gas combi is turned off and I rely on the heatpump to get the water to 50 degrees and then the immersions to heat it up the rest of the way to 60 degrees. When its summer and unlimited solar PV, I just use the immersions via the immersuns to heat the water up all the way.

Between Oct to March the gas combi is turned on and I limit the heating of the pre-heat tank to 40 degrees via the heatpump because the combi sometimes behaves erratically on pre-heated water above 40 degrees.

In winter the central heating is run on the heatpump when its cheap rate and sometimes on the batteries if its not too cold outside. But the gas is needed in the coldest weather. With the help of Ripple, I will also dump power at cheap rate to the storage heaters and this helps reduce the gas usage. I tried this two winters ago and it worked great but was more expensive than using gas but this coming winter I should get the help from the Ripple wind turbine so will try again on the storage heaters to displace more gas.

Sorry to say but gas needs to be more expensive to drive the right behaviours. That's not going to be politically popular but its got to happen in order to nudge people to heatpumps and more insulation. Maybe an annual escalator on the price of gas will be the least unpopular option. It worked for Petrol, at least for a few years before we had the national protests.
I agree, gas is too cheap per kWh.

Storage heaters would work if Agile did what it was supposed to: provide several hours a day of near-zero or negative priced electricity regularly through the winter when the north sea wind turbines get spinning. But it seems they'd rather waste the energy through curtailment. I read that wind was curtailed on 75% of days in 2020, that is free, renewable energy going to waste. I'd use it, and I'm sure you would too!

A heat-pump in ideal conditions, on the Go cheap rate, just about beats gas. But if your pump is air-source and the outside temperature is below 0℃ then gas wins even on the cheap rate. Storage heaters are double the cost of gas even on the cheap rate. Outside of the cheap rate on a ToU tariff you're burning money with any kind of electric heating.

If the sums shift then I'd fit an air-to-air heat pump to add a bit of warmth in the shoulder months. But it'd need to match gas at standard rate and justify purchase/installation costs on the cheap rate.
12x 340W JA Solar panels (4.08kWp)
3x 380W JA Solar panels (1.14kWp)
5x 2.4kWh Pylontech batteries (12kWh)
LuxPower inverter/charger

(Artist formally known as ******, well it should be obvious enough to those for whom such things are important.)
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nowty
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Location: South Coast

Re: Smart meter / ToU tariff

#7

Post by nowty »

Stinsy wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 1:07 pm If the sums shift then I'd fit an air-to-air heat pump to add a bit of warmth in the shoulder months. But it'd need to match gas at standard rate and justify purchase/installation costs on the cheap rate.
I have thought of this for several years as they are very cheap to buy, like sub £500 but they have extra commissioning costs. Cooling my lounge in Summer would be free with the amount of solar and storage I've got. And running it in heat mode in the shoulder months or even in winter during cheap rate periods should compete with gas prices.

If the Ripple wind turbine works out, I think it will really open up my opportunities to further electrify my house.
16.9kW PV > 109MWh generated
Ripple 6.6kW Wind + 4.5kW PV > 25MWh generated
5 Other RE Coop's
105kWh EV storage
60kWh Home battery storage
40kWh Thermal storage
GSHP + A2A HP's
Rain water use > 510 m3
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Stinsy
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Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2021 1:09 pm

Re: Smart meter / ToU tariff

#8

Post by Stinsy »

I thought you could buy one of the "easy fit" models where you just attach the pre-made pipe, open the taps, and good to go, just ignore the bit about F-gas qualification being "technically" required.

But it doesn't work like that. You can't even buy one without confirming which F-gas registered engineer you intend to use!
12x 340W JA Solar panels (4.08kWp)
3x 380W JA Solar panels (1.14kWp)
5x 2.4kWh Pylontech batteries (12kWh)
LuxPower inverter/charger

(Artist formally known as ******, well it should be obvious enough to those for whom such things are important.)
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nowty
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Joined: Mon May 31, 2021 2:36 pm
Location: South Coast

Re: Smart meter / ToU tariff

#9

Post by nowty »

Stinsy wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 5:00 pm I thought you could buy one of the "easy fit" models where you just attach the pre-made pipe, open the taps, and good to go, just ignore the bit about F-gas qualification being "technically" required.

But it doesn't work like that. You can't even buy one without confirming which F-gas registered engineer you intend to use!
I recall many years ago, an ex work colleague bought a DIY split system. It was over gassed, so you connected it all together with the final connection slightly loose. The instructions then said open gas valve for x seconds which purged out all the air, then tighten up the connection, it worked fine.

But the gas was probably not very environmentally friendly in those days.
16.9kW PV > 109MWh generated
Ripple 6.6kW Wind + 4.5kW PV > 25MWh generated
5 Other RE Coop's
105kWh EV storage
60kWh Home battery storage
40kWh Thermal storage
GSHP + A2A HP's
Rain water use > 510 m3
Bugtownboy
Posts: 958
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2021 12:35 pm

Re: Smart meter / ToU tariff

#10

Post by Bugtownboy »

Presume something like this, for a single room application, is a sealed system, so good to go ?

https://www.appliancesdirect.co.uk/p/iq ... onditioner
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