Kris Harbour’s timber-frame 8.4kWp PV ground mount

[Joeboy]

Well , as said a very interesting and talented person ,who can present him self very well,

But i still think , its not a simple nor an economic structure for a ground mount PV idea

For sure , if it would have been called a Shed with PV roof ontop, that would make sense to me , or shelter for animals

When my first PV panels arrived in Ireland about 15 years ago , small array only 1.6 kw at a price of 10 times of those in the video ....

I still can laugh about that effort about digging holes , make concrete footings for a timbertructure of 2 tons of wood 4-5 inch strong . ...... i just hammered in 2 inch galvanized pipe in the ground and went from there .... no where i have seen ground mount PV Ideas with an try to built from wood , beside some individual ideas .

Bear in mind that he is high up in the Welsh hills in a very exposed location. His first wind turbine failed after a period of 50mph to 60mph winds, and it's not unusual in his videos to see the turbine furling because of high winds whilst he is still working on the buildings. The windage on those panels in his very exposed location is going to be way higher than in most places.

How many here have achieved even 10% of this young man's efforts in their lifetime? Not sure I understand the desire expressed here to just criticise rather than commend him for his efforts and committent to living a low impact life.

I agree OGB, not a fan of that negativity myself. There's always one who can't just applaud when its very obviously already earned.

Watched a minute of the video this morning. Will watch whole thing in the morning. I really liked that he used the income from online view's of the build to do the build. A good lad indeed, looking fwd to the whole video tomorrow

[billi]

Well , as said a very interesting and talented person ,who can present him self very well,

But i still think , its not a simple nor an economic structure for a ground mount PV idea

For sure , if it would have been called a Shed with PV roof ontop, that would make sense to me , or shelter for animals

When my first PV panels arrived in Ireland about 15 years ago , small array only 1.6 kw at a price of 10 times of those in the video ....

I still can laugh about that effort about digging holes , make concrete footings for a timbertructure of 2 tons of wood 4-5 inch strong . ...... i just hammered in 2 inch galvanized pipe in the ground and went from there .... no where i have seen ground mount PV Ideas with an try to built from wood , beside some individual ideas .

Bear in mind that he is high up in the Welsh hills in a very exposed location. His first wind turbine failed after a period of 50mph to 60mph winds, and it's not unusual in his videos to see the turbine furling because of high winds whilst he is still working on the buildings. The windage on those panels in his very exposed location is going to be way higher than in most places.

How many here have achieved even 10% of this young man's efforts in their lifetime? Not sure I understand the desire expressed here to just criticise rather than commend him for his efforts and committent to living a low impact life.

Not sure what you mean ! Am not here to argue ! and will not in-cooperate others ! As i am on my own , not part of a group!

Was fun for me in the Hills of Ireland . 15 years back with wind , hydro. PV , energy , but never would have thought about such a mounting frame structures

[billi]

like me , Kris ,did the mistake to built up an off grid idea based on 24 volt battery bank
the setup of that 4 kw PV as it is clamped down to that 4 KW as he explained , would be much more interesting to discuss, than the mounting frame and setup of that PV and the "beautifull timber construction" that needed him 5 weeks to built (hope he did no full days work on that ) , surely his cost calculation/result of 7-8000 GBP for that install , is based on free timber and free labor . But put that into relation for people to get an contractor in, to install it that way ..... the costs would be astronomic ! and in no relation to the clamped 4 kW of PV

Obviously he had not have the possibility with his setup, to use an Grid tie inverter for AC-coupling , or did not think about it

Surely some MPPT charge controllers can handle an oversized PV array like some of the Victrons and the Midnite classic that he has got too . And both of them can "only" handle a limited amount of Amps to a battery voltage , and therefor this 8.4 kW PV is limited to 4 kW as he explains .

As we know that he has a workshop with powertools to run etc , the AC-coupling idea perhaps would have been a better idea . .....
But lets admire the beautiful timber frame

[Oldgreybeard]

like me , Kris ,did the mistake to built up an off grid idea based on 24 volt battery bank
the setup of that 4 kw PV as it is clamped down to that 4 KW as he explained , would be much more interesting to discuss, than the mounting frame and setup of that PV and the "beautifull timber construction" that needed him 5 weeks to built (hope he did no full days work on that ) , surely his cost calculation/result of 7-8000 GBP for that install , is based on free timber and free labor . But put that into relation for people to get an contractor in, to install it that way ..... the costs would be astronomic ! and in no relation to the clamped 4 kW of PV

Obviously he had not have the possibility with his setup, to use an Grid tie inverter for AC-coupling , or did not think about it

Surely some MPPT charge controllers can handle an oversized PV array like some of the Victrons and the Midnite classic that he has got too . And both of them can "only" handle a limited amount of Amps to a battery voltage , and therefor this 8.4 kW PV is limited to 4 kW as he explains .

As we know that he has a workshop with powertools to run etc , the AC-coupling idea perhaps would have been a better idea . .....
But lets admire the beautiful timber frame

He is way off grid, high up in the hills in South Wales, not far from the Lammas community in north Pembrokeshire I believe (he did mention in one video that he's been a volunteer at Lammas). He has no mains electricity supply, no mains water supply and no mains drainage. The notion of any sort of grid tie system is therefore not applicable as there is no grid to connect to.

I don't know for sure, but I suspect he's taking advantage of the "one planet development" law in Wales that allows people to build homes in rural areas as long as they can show that they are largely self-sufficient after 5 years and are not doing anything to damage the environment. This was the law that was introduced after a great deal of work by the Lammas community, and I still find it remarkable that the Welsh Assembly was forward thinking enough to introduce it, even if they did need a lot of persuading.

The background to his story is that he got fed up with working hard at a normal job, saving, buying a house etc, so sold up and bought about 18 acres of very poor farming land and woodland. He camped on that land in a tent for years, built himself a single room round house using mostly materials from the land, and as he's learned more about natural building and off-grid living he has built better stuff to make life more comfortable, like his home made wind turbine, home made hydroelectric installation, and his original home made PV system.

As he's learned new skills, and been able to earn some money by teaching others about what he's learned, he's made their home more comfortable and practical. The thing that impresses me the most is that he just gets on and does things without assuming that to do them requires some secret trade knowledge. He does the research, understands how something needs to be done and then just goes and does it, pretty much always to a high standard. For example, his first round house was built with him knowing it would not last forever, IIRC he designed and built it to last around 10 years, giving him enough time to learn the skills, and gather the resources, to build a more comfortable home.

Same goes for things like the massively over-built greenhouse he designed and built. The timbers are way bigger than would be typical for an off-the-shelf commercial greenhouse, but he designed it to cope with the 50mph to 60mph winds they get in their exposed location and also he wanted it to last at least 30 years. The same design logic was applied to the ground PV mount - it has been built to both withstand the high winds at the site and to last at least 30 years.

There is a lot to be said for massively over-building something when you rely on it for much of your power, it is your own hard labour going into it, and when you have a source of free timber and a home made mill to provide any size you want just for the cost of the waste vegetable oil that runs the engine. I do the same, as I get older I don't want to have to worry about something failing and me not being fit and able to repair/replace it, so I make stuff that will last longer than I will if I possibly can. If his PV system fails during a dry and windless period then they have no power until he fixes it, and I'm sure that influences his thinking when it comes to making the thing reliable and long-lasting.

[nowty]

Obviously he had not have the possibility with his setup, to use an Grid tie inverter for AC-coupling , or did not think about it

He is way off grid, high up in the hills in South Wales, not far from the Lammas community in north Pembrokeshire I believe (he did mention in one video that he's been a volunteer at Lammas). He has no mains electricity supply, no mains water supply and no mains drainage. The notion of any sort of grid tie system is therefore not applicable as there is no grid to connect to.

SMA kit has been AC coupling Off Grid for over a decade with its frequency shift throttle control capability of its PV grid tie inverters. Nowty Towers can use its grid tie inverters AC coupled if we lose the grid.

[billi]

Well oldgreybeard, i was Off grid too West Coast of Ireland .....for Many years , Hope you understand that i have some opinion on this Install too , and i do Not Need to know all the Details of His life Just a few thoughts in Relation to that Threads and the Boss' linked , so maybe you could comment on that topic about that Installation ?

[Oldgreybeard]

Obviously he had not have the possibility with his setup, to use an Grid tie inverter for AC-coupling , or did not think about it

He is way off grid, high up in the hills in South Wales, not far from the Lammas community in north Pembrokeshire I believe (he did mention in one video that he's been a volunteer at Lammas). He has no mains electricity supply, no mains water supply and no mains drainage. The notion of any sort of grid tie system is therefore not applicable as there is no grid to connect to.

SMA kit has been AC coupling Off Grid for over a decade with its frequency shift throttle control capability of its PV grid tie inverters. Nowty Towers can use its grid tie inverters AC coupled if we lose the grid.

I'm struggling to understand how anything can be AC coupled in his setup.

His set up is an ex-forklift battery pack charged by three DC sources, a micro hydro system (winter only), a PV system and a wind turbine. Each DC source has its own charge controller. On the AC side he has a (pretty hefty) single phase inverter that supplies AC to his house and workshop. He also has a single phase to three phase converter in the workshop just to run some machine tools.

Maybe I'm losing it, but what use would AC coupling be when there's only one AC supply? I'm struggling to see what would/could couple to what, TBH. It seems to me that, given he's put things together on a shoestring budget (at least initially) with mismatched bits and bobs from ebay and the like, gathered over a period of years, that what he's done seems sensible.

[nowty]

He is way off grid, high up in the hills in South Wales, not far from the Lammas community in north Pembrokeshire I believe (he did mention in one video that he's been a volunteer at Lammas). He has no mains electricity supply, no mains water supply and no mains drainage. The notion of any sort of grid tie system is therefore not applicable as there is no grid to connect to.

SMA kit has been AC coupling Off Grid for over a decade with its frequency shift throttle control capability of its PV grid tie inverters. Nowty Towers can use its grid tie inverters AC coupled if we lose the grid.

I'm struggling to understand how anything can be AC coupled in his setup.

His set up is an ex-forklift battery pack charged by three DC sources, a micro hydro system (winter only), a PV system and a wind turbine. Each DC source has its own charge controller. On the AC side he has a (pretty hefty) single phase inverter that supplies AC to his house and workshop. He also has a single phase to three phase converter in the workshop just to run some machine tools.

Maybe I'm losing it, but what use would AC coupling be when there's only one AC supply? I'm struggling to see what would/could couple to what, TBH. It seems to me that, given he's put things together on a shoestring budget (at least initially) with mismatched bits and bobs from ebay and the like, gathered over a period of years, that what he's done seems sensible.

If his main OffGrid AC inverter was an SMA Sunny Island, then he could connect standard SMA Sunny Boy PV inverters to it and run with higher string voltages from the PV. If he needs a high power AC in the daytime, he would get both PV powered AC from the Sunny Boys and Battery powered AC from the Sunny Island simultaneously.

There are Pros and Cons of DC or AC coupling and you can even have both giving you the best of both worlds.

http://www.windandsun.co.uk/information ... swy-zfMKUk

[Oldgreybeard]

If his main OffGrid AC inverter was an SMA Sunny Island, then he could connect standard SMA Sunny Boy PV inverters to it and run with higher string voltages from the PV. If he needs a high power AC in the daytime, he would get both PV powered AC from the Sunny Boys and Battery powered AC from the Sunny Island simultaneously.

There are Pros and Cons of DC or AC coupling and you can even have both giving you the best of both worlds.

http://www.windandsun.co.uk/information ... swy-zfMKUk

I understand that, have installed a couple of Sunny Boy systems in the past, but they are very definitely not cheap, or even affordable in the context of this chaps installation, I suspect. This is very much a budget installation, made up from a hodge podge of second hand panels, charge controllers, etc, none of it was new AFAICS, and it's sort of grown organically as he's been able to find cheap/free stuff.

I remain convinced that what he's put together is OK for his needs, with the sole exception of the issues he has with start up current every now and again, which seems largely related to his battery pack ageing. Whenever he has a start up issue with some of the heavier kit he's got, his fix is to wait for an hour or so for the batteries to top up, and my gut feeling is that this just compensates a bit for the voltage sag that I think may be the root cause of the occasional problem.

Mind you, having installed a few three phase passive converters over the years and seen first hand the starting current even a modest three phase machine takes when run through one I think it's asking a hell of a lot for a second hand single phase inverter to handle. I installed one of the same capacitor/inductor three phase converters he has in the workshop of a chap that had bought a cheap three phase compressor, years ago. Worked OK, but noticeably dimmed all the lights during start up and the compressor only had a 1.5hp motor. I have a solid state VFD running my old three phase lathe, brilliant bit of kit that has no noticeable starting current surge at all. Something like that would almost certainly fix his issues, but then again they don't often come up for sale second hand at a cheap price like the old passive three phase converters.

[billi]

@Oldgreybeard

I understand that, have installed a couple of Sunny Boy systems in the past, but they are very definitely not cheap, or even affordable in the context of this chaps installation, I suspect. This is very much a budget installation, made up from a hodge podge of second hand panels, charge controllers, etc, none of it was new AFAICS, and it's sort of grown organically as he's been able to find cheap/free stuff

Is that so ? The panels he bought new , and the charge controllers are top of the range models and i would not think one can get them second hand easy , so i assume they are new too .

AC coupling is not automatically more expensive as the Grid tie inverters are easy to source second hand and does not need to be from SMA , same for Off- grid inverters that can deal with that idea too

AC coupling for a guy like him and his workshop , has several benefits, as the AC power from the panels during the day ads on to the offgrid Inverter power rating , so if one has a say 4 kw Off grid inverter and the sun delivers 4 kw through the GTI on has then about 8 kw of AC power available

@ All some decent Studer of grid inverters that can do AC-coupling and Grid tie inverters Panels and other stuff one can find here .

https://www.secondsol.com/en/handelspla ... 02a6db.htm