Does old MCS certificate cover new work?

[nowty]

I've just looked it up to be sure and for SEG it turns out to be possible for manual readings or even a separate manual meter can be used.

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/sites/default/ ... _final.pdf

Page5
3.5. These meter readings can be accessed automatically (ie from a smart meter) or as
manual readings provided by the generator. SEG licensees are still obligated to
offer a tariff to a generator even if the generator intends to or is only able to submit
their meter readings manually, provided the meter is compliant with metering
legislation and is capable of measuring export at half-hourly intervals, as set out in
paragraph 4.15-4.19 of this guidance.

[sharpener]

Manually reporting half-hourly data sounds wholly impractical to me. Still doesn't help them distinguish between the SEG export and the FIT.

If OTOH they don't need it why are you obliged to measure it?

On the whole it sounds like my decision to ignore SEG altogether on 3.2 kW sounds the right one! Not worth risking the 62p/kWh on the original 3.68.

[nowty]

Agile Outgoing is a form of SEG and requires half hour export readings.

[sharpener]

Going back to the main topic am I not entitled to an MCS certificate and can anyone suggest how I can persuade them to give me one for the work they have performed?

[Krill]

Have you paid them yet?

If its in the contract it's straightforward enforcement once they try to take you to county court and secondary complaints to MCS (and other regulatory bodies) for failure to comply.

If you've already paid them then you would need to instigate court proceedings. House insurance legal cover is also best used to cover it but would need to check if they will support.

[sharpener]

House insurance legal cover is also best used to cover it but would need to check if they will support.

Not much use. Is always subject to the insurers' judgement as to whether they have a reasonable chance of success, IME when it gets sticky they suddenly form the view that it is a hopeless case and use this clause as a get-out.

But I still have the money. My guess is that they will find it less trouble to get me a certificate than justify to MCS why they will not do so. I am thinking in terms of a substantial retention against its provision.

Yesterday I was told they were confident they could complete the install today. When their electricians turned up briefly in the twilight to scope out the job for tomorrow they said that could never have happened as they were not booked to arrive until Thursday.

[nowty]

I have an old copy from 2013 of the Microgeneration Installation Standard: MIS 3002

Maybe the real reason of the reluctance to issue a certificate is highlighted below,


6. HANDOVER REQUIREMENTS
At the point at which the solar PV system is handed over to the client, the documentation as
detailed in 4.5 shall be provided and explained along with:

 The maintenance requirements and maintenance services available;
 A certificate signed by the contractor containing at least the following:
 a statement confirming that the solar PV system meets the requirements of
this standard
 Client name and address
 Site address (if different)
 Contractors name, address etc.
 List key components installed
 Estimation of system performance calculated according to 4.3

All MCS Installations shall be registered to the MCS Licensee through the MCS Installation
Database. A certificate shall be obtained from the MCS Installation Database for each installation
showing that the installation has been registered with the scheme and shall be provided to the
customer no later than 10 working days after the date of commissioning the system; on provision
of the certificate the customer shall be instructed to include it within the handover pack.

The generation of the certificate shall be undertaken in full compliance with the terms and
conditions of use of the MCS Installation Database and the registration of the system on the
MCS installation database shall only be undertaken after the system has been fully installed and
commissioned.

A “per installation” fee is levied on installers for each registration added to the database. Details
of any such fee will be advised from time to time through MCS Certification Bodies.

EDIT - A later copy referenced here from 2019 still has the same text.
https://mcscertified.com/wp-content/upl ... S-3002.pdf

[sharpener]

I have an old copy from 2013 of the Microgeneration Installation Standard: MIS 3002

Maybe the real reason of the reluctance to issue a certificate is highlighted below,

A “per installation” fee is levied on installers for each registration added to the database. Details
of any such fee will be advised from time to time through MCS Certification Bodies.[/i]

EDIT - A later copy referenced here from 2019 still has the same text.
https://mcscertified.com/wp-content/upl ... S-3002.pdf

Thanks for that @nowty.

Anyone know what the current fee is? Then I can make sure they have an appropriate incentive.

[sharpener]

But I still have the money. My guess is that they will find it less trouble to get me a certificate than justify to MCS why they will not do so. I am thinking in terms of a substantial retention against its provision.

A telephone meeting with their credit controller (without biscuits) miraculously resulted in an MCS certificate by close-of-play last night!

Amazingly they have got the right MPAN on it, they must have looked me up on some industry database.

Apparently they need to supply a generation meter serial number to MCS, even if they are not supplying one and there is no AC connection involved. So they used a random meter in their stores, now they can't use it for any other MCS installation. Tant pis!

[Krill]

I'm glad to hear it was resolved satisfactorily.

As an aside, it seems bizarre that MCS need multiple generation meter serial numbers. I wonder if there is a requirement, or at least an expectation from MCS that there should be a meter fitted to each separate installation? It feels from the text nowty quoted that perhaps this is a requirement, because without the meter it would not technically meet the requirement (because this separate installation itself would have no way to record?)

Actually, checking https://mcscertified.com/wp-content/upl ... TRONIC.pdf

"2.3.6 Metering
Inverter output meter: As a minimum, metering at the inverter output should be installed to display/record energy delivered by the PV system (kWh). In addition it is highly recommended for instantaneous power output (kW) to be displayed. This will not only add to customer satisfaction it should lead to more effective fault detection. An approved kWh meter as detailed in the “Metering Guidance” document issued by MCS, connected to measure generation, will be required to facilitate payments of any financial incentives (e.g. Feed in Tariff payments)."

So actually it looks like there should be a generation meter included for each specific array. I imagine that the serial number should correspond with that meter and not the building export meter?