Part ownership of a Ripple Wind Turbine, fancy it?

[Swwils]

National Grid Energy System Operator - NGESO.

In this context where generators and consumers don't care where the energy is coming from and going to (prices are independent in the UK) the NGESO pick up the bits and deliver the physical reality and have the final say in keeping the lights on. The NGESO look after the balancing mechanism that fixes the issues that crop up that would put the grid out of balance across the whole network.

Its meant to be a very light touch mechanism but in 2022 they have had to intervene with over 50% of generation in the UK. The balancing kinda has to happen in hour before the power is going to be used and this is a super costly way to optimise the system. I wont get into curtailment process but the base problem is that you generate RE, get paid, get paid to turn off, then pay again to generate the demand far away with gas since you cant get the RE to the location or store it.

A much more elegant solution would be to use location as the market, placing more responsibility on generators and consumers and actually worry about where the energy is coming from and where it’s going. This style of system is used in NZ, bits of US and Canada.

So the idea is you split the UK energy market into lots of small nodes and allowing prices to develop independently in each node. This would mean much lower power prices in places with high generation and low demand (Scotland, North) and much higher prices in places with lots of demand and not much generation (South).

This would provide an excellent incentive for generators, who might finally battle the NIMBYIsm of the South East and build more there. Youd also hopefully see energy-intensive industries move North, closer to existing RE.

NGESO like this idea and want to start to dramatically get it going in 5 years under the "Net Zero Market Reform Phase 3 Conclusions" - Catapult & Octopus estimate this could save £30 billion within 10 years. Other people in the market hate the idea as they remember the last rejig in 2000s.


1. https://www.nationalgrideso.com/documen ... 6/download
2. https://www.nationalgrideso.com/documen ... 6/download

Thank you, i will read the links in the morning, much appreciated. Where are you in this?

I think even with the HVDC interconnects going in as quick as they can, I think from memory we will get 2GW in 2026 and 4GW extra in 2030. By the time that's happened there will be even more RE in the North so just laying cable cant solve the problem by itself. The majority of wind projects are still going in where they shouldn't be (various reasons), we have all the bits we need for a lovely zero carbon energy system (but need to be careful not the screw this up as we go, I do not think we will get the storage projected) - especially as the various turbines under FIT and ROC expire. I am all for the full whack node locational pricing. (Scotland will say otherwise since it would effectively blunt any further RE projects there, unless onshore is greenlit.)

Octopus "fan club" is a pseudo-version of it. Archy at Carbonchain has several more pages on it.

https://www.nationalgrideso.com/documen ... 6/download - NGESO made a big case for it too, reform is a hot topic.

[nowty]

Do any of you actually live near the turbine? Does ripple offer a localised market for the generation?

WT1 benefits from a small additional payment known as ‘embedded benefits’ to generators that are connected to the distribution system to take account of the fact the power is likely to travel a shorter distance to its point of consumption.

[nowty]

Just to pass the time I'm going to say 10pm on 23rd January for toppling November, the current record holder.

Anyone else fancy a guess? The prize is an air of smugness for 1 hour at a time chosen by you, the winner!

Midday 20th Jan.

Being the eternal optimist I'll go for 6pm on the 18th.
Knowing it was highly unlikely that WT1 would then meet up with the annual figure listed on our dashboard I've attempted to calculate what CF would need to be met each and every day from 1st Jan to 14th March. Shouldn't be too difficult I know, FWIW I came up with 51.08%.
Up to Jan 11th it's achieved 66.5%! Can't be happening can it?

68.7% now up to 12th Jan.

At least 9 members on here are in,

[Joeboy]

Midday 20th Jan.

Being the eternal optimist I'll go for 6pm on the 18th.
Knowing it was highly unlikely that WT1 would then meet up with the annual figure listed on our dashboard I've attempted to calculate what CF would need to be met each and every day from 1st Jan to 14th March. Shouldn't be too difficult I know, FWIW I came up with 51.08%.
Up to Jan 11th it's achieved 66.5%! Can't be happening can it?

68.7% now up to 12th Jan.

At least 9 members on here are in,

I've got an average CF for yesterday of 93.6% and it's been outputting at up to 98.1% since midnight.
These figures are astonishing and a joy to see. Fair enough there's a dip coming but what a run this has been.

Oh yeah, that's April's entire count been passed at the end of day 12.

[Joeboy]

National Grid Energy System Operator - NGESO.

In this context where we are waiting for new transmission, generators and consumers don't care where the energy is coming from and going to (prices are independent in the UK) the NGESO pick up the bits and deliver the physical reality and have the final say in keeping the lights on. The NGESO look after the balancing mechanism that fixes the issues that crop up that would put the grid out of balance across the whole network.

Its meant to be a very light touch mechanism but in 2022 they have had to intervene with over 50% of generation in the UK. The balancing kinda has to happen in hour before the power is going to be used and this is a super costly way to optimise the system. I wont get into curtailment process but the base problem is that you generate RE, get paid, get paid to turn off, then pay again to generate the demand far away with gas since you cant get the RE to the location or store it.

A much more elegant solution would be to use location as the market, placing more responsibility on generators and consumers and actually worry about where the energy is coming from and where it’s going. This style of system is used in NZ, bits of US and Canada.

So the idea is you split the UK energy market into lots of small nodes and allowing prices to develop independently in each node. This would mean much lower power prices in places with high generation and low demand (Scotland, North) and much higher prices in places with lots of demand and not much generation (South).

This would provide an excellent incentive for generators, who might finally battle the NIMBYIsm of the South East and build more there. Youd also hopefully see energy-intensive industries move North, closer to existing RE.

NGESO like this idea and want to start to dramatically get it going in 5 years under the "Net Zero Market Reform Phase 3 Conclusions" - Catapult & Octopus estimate this could save £30 billion within 10 years. Other people in the market hate the idea as they remember the last rejig in 2000s.


1. https://www.nationalgrideso.com/documen ... 6/download
2. https://www.nationalgrideso.com/documen ... 6/download

Yep, sign me up for nodal pricing. Reads as an excellent logical development

[Joeboy]

Random thought, the wind at site isn't incredible, it's great but it's not record-breaking. Yet the CF is up at about 98% since midnight? I wonder if there have been tweaks going on the last few days in the turbine blade settings to get maximum out of it on this site?

Surreal to think that 10 months in and its just bedding in and getting the chance to be hitting its stride. .

99.27% cf in the last hour. I don't think we've seen this level and timeline of consistency before?

[Adokforme]

Random thought, the wind at site isn't incredible, it's great but it's not record-breaking. Yet the CF is up at about 98% since midnight? I wonder if there have been tweaks going on the last few days in the turbine blade settings to get maximum out of it on this site?

Surreal to think that 10 months in and its just bedding in and getting the chance to be hitting its stride. .

99.27% cf in the last hour. I don't think we've seen this level and timeline of consistency before?

Admittedly down to power and consistency of wind but it hasn't achieved these impressive figures much before. It did hit 93.97% for the day on Jan 4th but the previous best figure was 89.56% back in April, the 23rd!
With what has been generated so far today and forecast ahead, I don't know if I'm tempting fate but its in danger of hitting 70% for the month come midnight!
What a journey we're having, for while the investment alone was well worth it, the chat, comaraderie and education on here is an unexpected bonus.

[nowty]

Random thought, the wind at site isn't incredible, it's great but it's not record-breaking. Yet the CF is up at about 98% since midnight? I wonder if there have been tweaks going on the last few days in the turbine blade settings to get maximum out of it on this site?

Surreal to think that 10 months in and its just bedding in and getting the chance to be hitting its stride. .

99.27% cf in the last hour. I don't think we've seen this level and timeline of consistency before?

I do agree that in the past we have seen some discrepancies between what the wind speed has been doing and the actual wind speed in the general area. Wind at the moment is down quite a bit on the last two days and we are still at near 100% levels.

It has been documented in the last two published WT1 Coop mtg minutes that some grid works in the area seem to have been the issue of curtailment rather than a problem with the turbine.

Sep Mtg
"Curtailment issue seems to have been resolved. Given nothing had changed on the
turbine settings, the lack of curtailment appears to have been caused by grid works
in the region, which have now concluded."

Oct Mtg
"No update on the voltage issue. It is currently sitting with a WPD who is unwell.
There have, however, not been any further curtailment incidents which strengthens
the view that the curtailments were a grid rather than turbine issue."

[Joeboy]

Random thought, the wind at site isn't incredible, it's great but it's not record-breaking. Yet the CF is up at about 98% since midnight? I wonder if there have been tweaks going on the last few days in the turbine blade settings to get maximum out of it on this site?

Surreal to think that 10 months in and its just bedding in and getting the chance to be hitting its stride. .

99.27% cf in the last hour. I don't think we've seen this level and timeline of consistency before?

I do agree that in the past we have seen some discrepancies between what the wind speed has been doing and the actual wind speed in the general area. Wind at the moment is down quite a bit on the last two days and we are still at near 100% levels.

It has been documented in the last two published WT1 Coop mtg minutes that some grid works in the area seem to have been the issue of curtailment rather than a problem with the turbine.

Sep Mtg
"Curtailment issue seems to have been resolved. Given nothing had changed on the
turbine settings, the lack of curtailment appears to have been caused by grid works
in the region, which have now concluded."

Oct Mtg
"No update on the voltage issue. It is currently sitting with a WPD who is unwell.
There have, however, not been any further curtailment incidents which strengthens
the view that the curtailments were a grid rather than turbine issue."

Bodes well.

[AE-NMidlands]

Midday 20th Jan.

Being the eternal optimist I'll go for 6pm on the 18th.
Knowing it was highly unlikely that WT1 would then meet up with the annual figure listed on our dashboard I've attempted to calculate what CF would need to be met each and every day from 1st Jan to 14th March. Shouldn't be too difficult I know, FWIW I came up with 51.08%.
Up to Jan 11th it's achieved 66.5%! Can't be happening can it?

68.7% now up to 12th Jan.

At least 9 members on here are in,

I'll offer mid-day on the 18th of Jan... (unless someone else has)
Of course the later we bid, the "easier" it gets...
A