Portable charging leads

[Stinsy]

So why is this risk any worse than using the granny lead plugged into any of the 5 general purpose 13A sockets in the garage, which AIUI is perfectly legit?

The same rules apply to any socket intended to be used for EV charging.

[Swwils]

Mode 1 charging is now not allowed in England and restricted in several countries to ebikes and scooters.

Mode 2 charging is also restricted in several countries and discouraged in England.

A regular 13A socket is just unsuitable for charging an EV.

Regardless of what your charger has, if you stick that in a type AC RCD group your install is potentially dangerous.

In other countries they have more sensible, clear modern regs and installs E.g. no mode 2 charging in public places but at home for a private car fine.

[nowty]

So why is this risk any worse than using the granny lead plugged into any of the 5 general purpose 13A sockets in the garage, which AIUI is perfectly legit?

There are many videos online which illustrate the risk, but I've only seen one which was convincing and simple, but I cannot remember which one it is to reference. The issue is cable faults in the street which lead to a rise in the earth (or neutral) voltage with respect to the real earth voltage.

Inside the house because everything metallic should be bonded together to the earth PME and in a cable fault the voltage of that metalwork will also rise to a similar voltage thus there should be no lethal voltage differential even if there is a fault.

But if you export an abnormal earth/neutral voltage to a vehicle outside the house, you may be standing on a wet driveway / lawn at true earth voltage and touching an abnormal voltage on the vehicle may be lethal to the user.

That's the reason for having an earth rod which will go some way to equalise the voltage between an abnormal earth voltage and the true earth voltage. But to be effective it should be as close to the vehicle charging area as possible and have as low a resistance to not give a lethal voltage differential at the operating max current of 32A. Some, now have PEN checks but do they check all the time or only before connection.

However I cannot find any stats of injuries or deaths from this either in the UK or worldwide apart from maintenance workers on commercial chargers.

[sharpener]

Mode 2 charging is ... discouraged in England.

Hardly. As of December, new EVs come with Mode 2 chargers with 13A piugs, not much discouragement there. If you provide them people will use them, including me when I am away from my zappi.

A regular 13A socket is just unsuitable for charging an EV.

A 13A socket on a poor installation (loose terminal screws, too many spurs, old fuseboard without RCD etc) maybe, otherwise there is no intrinsic problem, 230V is 230V. Current drain is less than a 3kW fan heater which might be on for hours. No interlock required either, as they have shuttered sockets.

Regardless of what your charger has, if you stick that in a type AC RCD group your install is potentially dangerous.

Type 2 chargers (including the one that came with the car and the ones mentioned upthread) have built-in compliant 6/30mA RCDs so I am not reliant on the one in my CU. I am not especially worried about PEN faults killing small children because charging is done between 0000 and 0700 inside a locked garage. There is no driveway outside for anyone to stand on, in a puddle or otherwise.

In other countries they have more sensible, clear modern regs and installs E.g. no mode 2 charging in public places but at home for a private car fine.

If "at home for a private car" is "fine" in "other countries with ... more sensible regs" what is different about the risks in the UK which means it is to be discouraged here?

I once worked on the electrical engineering desk in the DTI and this hysteria about PEN faults has all the hallmarks of the "electrical safety" scares we would see periodically, notably the lack of robust statistics for the incidence of the problem. The worst cases involved unbelievable stupidity on the part of the public, the one that sticks in my mind was the 2-year old killed by a toaster mis-wired by his father and left switched on even though it did not work.

[Swwils]

Other RCDs in the installation can still be blinded regardless of the type A RCD in the charger depending on the config.

Manufacturers will tell you whatever they like; aka "its safe if noone touches the vehicle". Unfortunately our and others regs have a little bit of a wider scope than that and it's obvious that people will touch the car whilst charging. A knowledgeable person wouldn't use what you suggest, that's all.

A regular 13A socket is unsuitable and this is explicitly mentioned in the regs.

The UK has different regulations on earthing requirements and hence we have different interpretations of the base standards compared to other counties. (This will be a hotter topic as heat pumps and local energy storage systems with ups becomes more common) It's worth nothing that mode 1 and 2 charging is totally disallowed in many places.

Going by prior incident is folly when the safe alternative is so cheap.

I agree at the moment it's arrived at a unworkable situation.

[Moxi]

I'm not convinced that its all about safety in the UK the elimination to be honest and I feel an ulterior agenda is part of the overall picture.

Underlying the safety aspects is also the fear that the average person in the country will be able to plug their car in at home without having to pay any form of excise on it.

Don't underestimate the governments need to control the general publics access to essential infrastructure.

Moxi

[Mr Gus]

"lie down & let take my Lb of taxable flesh"

Yes this has been discussed before which is where losing "smart connection" via an easily get at-able sim card is a sensible requirement, in case altered tax tariffs arise, compared to say pumping up vehicle excise duty & calling it quits.
& why folk consider a commando socket.

Stealthy, shadowy figure with their police outriders wilfully ignoring the "no seatbelt" situation occurring within..
*cough*

How many would consider an rfid signal cloak (waterproofing heat & damp protection. ..honest,) when charging faced with a different tax tier for a domestic ev smart charger!? (many here)

Shall we be the first to youtube "hack" this!? ..although mother shipton or alice nutter may have had prior foresight via second sight on this, it is bloody believable for down the road.

How would it affect the caravan camping club I wonder!? (back end humour & potential fall out of ev tariff + vehicle to grid type transfer & taxation)

[sharpener]

A regular 13A socket is unsuitable and this is explicitly mentioned in the regs.

Au contraire it is option (i) of five that are specifically allowed by the regs:

722.55.101.0.201.1 Each AC charging point shall incorporate:
(i) one socket-outlet complying with BS 1363-2 [Specification for 13 A switched and unswitched
socket-outlets] marked ‘EV’ on its rear and, except where there is no possibility
of confusion, a label shall be provided on the front face or adjacent to the socket-outlet or its enclosure
stating: ‘suitable for electric vehicle charging’
...
722.55.101.0.201.2 Each socket-outlet shall be installed in a distribution board in accordance with Regulation
722.51 or in its appropriate enclosure (e.g. flush or surface mounted socket-outlet box) and mounted in a fixed
position.
NOTE: Vehicle manufacturers' instructions should be taken into account when determining the type of socket-outlet to be
installed.


The car's handbook specifically states "The Mode 2 charging cable permits charging at domestic sockets with protective earth...When charging at a domestic socket first find out the permitted charge current level [and] set the charging current yourself... "

The supplied Mode 2 cable draws a maximum current of 10A with the single phase 13A socket adaptor lead. So the power is limited at present to 2.3kW. The 16A commando socket adaptor lead allows 3.7kW but costs £78 which is why I am looking at the alternatives.

I agree at the moment it's arrived at a unworkable situation.

That's an understatement for sure. No idea who thought that marking a 13A socket outlet on its rear would be in any way useful.

[Swwils]

The specially stamped sockets are not regular 13A sockets and are type tested differently - the back facing stamp is in conjunction with COP for proper labeling on he front or nearby to indicate it is suitable so it's a moot point often trotted out by those without the info or not working to best practice.

If you wish to get into detail for instance EV stamped socket type test make break for both the outlet and switches are performed at a power factor of 0.6; +0, -0.05 lagging. In regular sockets the loads for the making and breaking tests are non-inductive.

There is also crucial cyclic loading test where EV socket is loaded up to between 13 and 13.4 A for 28 cycles of 8 hours on, 1 off, 8 hours on 7 hour off. Not many regular sockets would pass this.

Some manufacturers type test their regular sockets to this standard, some do not, some a mix. BG for instance DO type test the 900 series but not the 800, or is that the other way around? Uh oh - let's just install a proper evse. These are new regs that did not appear in the previous editions.

Car manufactures can say whatever they like and it wouldn't superseded the intentions of 61851, and yes I realise that an external heat pump, metal box outside in the wet drawing 20A is not subject to PEN fault protection so lol.

If they really wanted they would just modulate ev curtailment protocol down the mains feed, like old meter comms. Which they already do via the type testing standards on base mains input frequency anyways.

Why don't you pickup a rollec wall box with the 13A in then it's an easy upgrade path in the future assuming your CU is suitable.

[AGT]

have a good read of the 4th edition CoP for EV and BS7671.
Provides a risk assessment for install, almost like a tick box exercise to a safe install