Toyota Battery.

[dan_b]

This smells like smoke and mirrors. A bit of investor PR to distract from the fact that they don't have any proper BEVs and are falling badly behind.

[Stinsy]

Sounds like BS to me.

However if it is the smoke and mirrors that Toyota need in order to save face switching from their “self charging” lie to making BEVs then I’ll go with it.

Some truths:

1) BEVs don’t need to charge any faster. 8-10hrs 20-100% plugged in at home or on a destination charging point at a hotel/workplace or wherever is plenty quick enough 99% of the time. The other 1% of the time 100kW is fast enough, at 4mi/kWh that gives you an additional 100miles. Quicker than you can walk to the services, have a pee, and walk back. Plenty of existing BEVs (Ioniq 5, Taycan, et al) charge much quicker than necessary already.

2) BEVs don’t need more range. So long as you can do 200 miles in the first hop then do 100-mile hops thereafter you can get wherever you like.

I’d be up for better energy density. You’d end up in a virtuous circle of: lighter battery means more efficiency which means you need a smaller-capacity and therefore even lighter battery. However we are up against the limits of what is technically possible and the currently proposed designs of high energy-density batteries will be used in aircraft or BEV hypercars, whereas ordinary cars are moving towards lower energy density chemistries (eg LiFePO4).

So basically Toyota are telling lies (something they make a habit of), but on this occasion I’ll not object.

[Moxi]

Maybe Toyota would do better if they ditched cars and manufactured, installed and operated a network of charging stations

Moxoi

[nowty]

Maybe Toyota would do better if they ditched cars and manufactured, installed and operated a network of charging stations

Moxoi

Self charging of course.

[richbee]

I don't think it's just Toyota, solid state batteries seem to be the next 'big thing' in batteries with various companies talking about them being around the corner (hopefully not in a nuclear fusion kind of way)
If you could get a full ICE range without charging, say 500 miles, that would convince a lot more people that range anxiety need no longer be a thing - and if they can charge mega quickly, the long charging stays are also a thing of the past, again it knocks down more barriers to BEV acceptance and might make the H2 argument go away for a vast majority of use cases.

It could also mean lighter cars with the same 2-300 mile range, which would also be a good thing, or vans with a sensible range - bring on the electric camper van with 400 miles range

[dan_b]

A quick google shows that Toyota has "announced" solidstate battery breakthrough coming "soon" at least 4 times now.

July 2023 - "could be available as soon as 2027"
July 2020 - will be commercially available in 2023
July 2017 - "just around the corner"
August 2009 - "revolutionary new battery with tenfold improvement in capacity announced"

Don't forget in 2022, Toyota had to recall all 2700 of its BZ4X EVs as the wheels kept falling off. And last month, the ASA banned Toyota adverts for exaggerating its charging speed claims.

It is still the world's largest automaker.

[Joeboy]

I don't think it's just Toyota, solid state batteries seem to be the next 'big thing' in batteries with various companies talking about them being around the corner (hopefully not in a nuclear fusion kind of way)
If you could get a full ICE range without charging, say 500 miles, that would convince a lot more people that range anxiety need no longer be a thing - and if they can charge mega quickly, the long charging stays are also a thing of the past, again it knocks down more barriers to BEV acceptance and might make the H2 argument go away for a vast majority of use cases.

It could also mean lighter cars with the same 2-300 mile range, which would also be a good thing, or vans with a sensible range - bring on the electric camper van with 400 miles range

Well said!

[Mr Gus]

A quick google shows that Toyota has "announced" solidstate battery breakthrough coming "soon" at least 4 times now.

July 2023 - "could be available as soon as 2027"
July 2020 - will be commercially available in 2023
July 2017 - "just around the corner"
August 2009 - "revolutionary new battery with tenfold improvement in capacity announced"

Don't forget in 2022, Toyota had to recall all 2700 of its BZ4X EVs as the wheels kept falling off. And last month, the ASA banned Toyota adverts for exaggerating its charging speed claims.

It is still the world's largest automaker.

Well placed Dan!
& exactly why I linked to toyota itself rather than just regurgitated mainstream press hyperbole, ..another round of passing the plate round for investment coffers, a REAL journalist would & should take toyota to task with those previous releases to wheedle out of them the actual % of aim completion they were on all those other occasions & why would we even begin to believe another cry of "wolf" now!? ...I guess you'd get a red face & hear the tappety tap of oxford cap shoes leaving the room under pressure.

But it isn't snide to ask for facts when there has been so much "alternate truth" bandied about, ...& that journo might have made a better name for themselves beyond mere page filler, non news crap office status.

[dan_b]

Another day, another "Toyota nearing production with solid state batteries" story - how many times can they pump out the same nonsense?

https://www.ft.com/content/6224f235-568 ... 223d7fa35e

[NikoV6]

Toyota, the Kodak of legacy ICE manufacturers, don't think they are too big to fold!