Battery powered train sets UK record

[Mart]

Maybe there will be a change in the way the charging is dealt with. For example, rather than embed all the batteries in the engine unit perhaps have the majority in a seperate unit that they can simpy exchange and then charge up whilst not in service - similar to the lorry concept in Australia. Maybe rather than just change the battery unit it is a piece of rolling stock on the train that they change similar to changing an engine or carriage.

Timetables can be adjusted especially if planned properly, so scheduling a longer break on the journey to take on more energy however that is to be done thereby allowing the newer technology could be possible. Electric trains could possibly run faster than the diesel with little overall chang in how far the train can travel in the day.

Multiple battery units may be a possibility for longer journeys, remember steam trains sometimes used more than one tender.

We don't have all the answers today, but I am sure we will find more in the furure, and no having the answer today is not a good reason not to develop the concept.

Can't remember where I read this idea, it was a comment on some article or other, but suggested battery 'tug' units, that join and leave a train on its journey. Perhaps you have charging stations along routes - a unit leaves the hub to join the train, whilst one aiding the train, disconnects, and heads to the hub for recharge.

I've no idea if the idea is viable, but it sounds reasonable, especially if the 'tugs' are autonomous, or remotely controlled. Maybe they could also be used to charge up the train's battery, as well as take some of the load, or instead of?

There's also a US idea of having autonomous BEV units for carrying shipping containers.

[Marcus]

Well i must admit i was thinking they'd have more than a niche role. I was kind of imagining the start-stop services i used to use that were running diesels being upgraded:- with trains that can do 60 - 80 miles without grid power (as suggested in the article) and installing overhead / 3rd rail power in and around the stations, where the train could charge whilst stationary and accelerating out of the station, then running on battery between stops.

That way you only have to electrify parts of the line near the stations rather than having to electrify every single mile of every track the trains might run on - which should be cheaper and quicker.

I must concede that i don't know that much about the railways though so maybe there's a lot of unelectrified track that my idea wouldn't work with.

[Mart]

Well i must admit i was thinking they'd have more than a niche role. I was kind of imagining the start-stop services i used to use that were running diesels being upgraded:- with trains that can do 60 - 80 miles without grid power (as suggested in the article) and installing overhead / 3rd rail power in and around the stations, where the train could charge whilst stationary and accelerating out of the station, then running on battery between stops.

That way you only have to electrify parts of the line near the stations rather than having to electrify every single mile of every track the trains might run on - which should be cheaper and quicker.

I must concede that i don't know that much about the railways though so maybe there's a lot of unelectrified track that my idea wouldn't work with.

Same as you. I don't know if it is as simple as that, but certainly what appears to me, to be the simplest solution.

When the track from London through the S. Wales coast was electrified, all of the bridges that were too low, had to be raised. Three main bridges in Cardiff were done, took about 18months each, around 5yrs with massive disruption, as these were key routes for cars. Co-incided with my 2017 cycling fight with an articulated lorry, spoiler alert, I lost! Wifey was home, and about half a mile from me, but had to drive ~3 miles to get to me, and then the ambulance took the wrong route, and ended up on the wrong side of the closed bridge, about quarter of a mile away, and had to drive the long route back round too ....... bit of an inconvenience!

[Joeboy]

Not quite trains but I really like the tram ride in from Edinburgh Airport to the city. Takes about 40 minutes but very stressless, no smells or noise.

I find it to be worth the premium in price over the airport bus when the trams are running (not 24 hrs). They could likely have done well with battery packs or a simple way for cities to extend or integrate a roadwheeled tram?

[Paul_F]

OK, I have lots of problems with this but do think it's appropriate in a very few circumstances.

• We've known how to build an electrified railway for over a century, and for the last 75 years it's been clear that it's much better than any other form of railway. Yet UK rail only has limited electrification because successive governments haven't been willing to accept the spending needed to make it happen.
• Both battery and hybrid trains are yet another way of kicking the can down the road and avoiding electrification. They aren't as good as 25kV overhead electrification and are more expensive to run, but are cheaper up-front so governments prefer them. Getting excited about battery trains just lets them kick the can down the road further.
• Added weight hits you three ways - increased maintenance cost (track wear is tied to axle weight), increased journey times (acceleration is force / mass) and increased energy consumption. Adding batteries to an existing electric train design (as here) makes all of these worse.
• The overwhelming majority of trains are running for 15+ hours a day. That means either a giant battery or always fast charging at stations - and the cost of that charging infrastructure is probably more expensive than overhead catenaries since you need very high power ratings at every station.

So you're left with lines that run a handful of trains a day at relatively low speed, where the train just sits in a station the rest of the time. The Stourbridge shuttle would be a good candidate for this but, umm, it's already using a flywheel battery anyway. Anything else this is inferior to proper overhead line electrification.

[AlBargey]

OK, I have lots of problems with this but do think it's appropriate in a very few circumstances.

• We've known how to build an electrified railway for over a century, and for the last 75 years it's been clear that it's much better than any other form of railway. Yet UK rail only has limited electrification because successive governments haven't been willing to accept the spending needed to make it happen.
• Both battery and hybrid trains are yet another way of kicking the can down the road and avoiding electrification. They aren't as good as 25kV overhead electrification and are more expensive to run, but are cheaper up-front so governments prefer them. Getting excited about battery trains just lets them kick the can down the road further.
• Added weight hits you three ways - increased maintenance cost (track wear is tied to axle weight), increased journey times (acceleration is force / mass) and increased energy consumption. Adding batteries to an existing electric train design (as here) makes all of these worse.
• The overwhelming majority of trains are running for 15+ hours a day. That means either a giant battery or always fast charging at stations - and the cost of that charging infrastructure is probably more expensive than overhead catenaries since you need very high power ratings at every station.

So you're left with lines that run a handful of trains a day at relatively low speed, where the train just sits in a station the rest of the time. The Stourbridge shuttle would be a good candidate for this but, umm, it's already using a flywheel battery anyway. Anything else this is inferior to proper overhead line electrification.

That's a good rundown of the issues, after reading a little more, It is a shame we still don't just have a fully electrified (overhead) rail network, but we don't, and maybe it is a distraction to look at battery electric trains, but I can still see a stop gap case for them on shorter branch lines, surely regen braking could make a big efficiency gain too and maybe even third rail in stations for powering up to speed and charging whilst stationary.

[Fintray]

Not quite trains but I really like the tram ride in from Edinburgh Airport to the city. Takes about 40 minutes but very stressless, no smells or noise.

Unless there is some "F***ing f***y" blocking the route Maybe the trams need some nudge bars fitted.

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/ed ... s-28672138

[Joeboy]

Not quite trains but I really like the tram ride in from Edinburgh Airport to the city. Takes about 40 minutes but very stressless, no smells or noise.

Unless there is some "F***ing f***y" blocking the route Maybe the trams need some nudge bars fitted.

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/ed ... s-28672138

Audi driver... not the first time this has happened. Not necessarily Audi the other times. I think tram nudge bars would be a legit solution. That would accelerate the proper parking behaviour learning process no end!

[Countrypaul]

I remember when I lived in Basel for a short while I had a green Montego Estate, there were quite a few comments about green being a dangerous choice of colour. The trams in Basel were green and the implication was that if their was a tram here involved in an accident the first thing checked was is there ant green paint on the other vehicle if so that vehicle was to blame!

[Mart]

I remember when I lived in Basel for a short while I had a green Montego Estate, there were quite a few comments about green being a dangerous choice of colour. The trams in Basel were green and the implication was that if their was a tram here involved in an accident the first thing checked was is there ant green paint on the other vehicle if so that vehicle was to blame!

I remember being told green was a slightly more 'dangerous' colour, as there is a lot of green in our world (naturally), so green cars can blend in a bit. Also, if true, we are wired to ignore green (or downplay it), again as there is a lot of it around.

However, there are also colours that seem to be in more accidents, such as red, which again it's claimed, because it's a choice made by people who may be a bit more extrovert and risk taking?

Black is a bit harder to see at times, and I've always (personally) found white and silver cars a bit harder to see in rain, if they don't put there lights on.

Perhaps this is both the safest and most dangerous colour choice at the same time:

VW Polo Harleguin