Small things matter

[Oliver90owner]

Ha ha, I remember when the refractory lining was getting a bit thin in a LARGE vertical flue (1100+ Celsius from a kiln) and starting to glow red in several spots. Can’t remember, but likely a 4 x 3 m steel structure lined with upwards of 200mm refractory.

Our clever engineering department proposed adding insulating refractory on the outside of the steel support structure - until I asked what the strength of the structural steel, of the flue might be, at close to 1100 Celsius. A week later, the kiln was stopped for flue repairs.

[Joeboy]

That's well said AM, a Wood fired storage heater. Our WS is excellent, efficient and parsimonious in its consumption but it is cold by the morning. Enough thermal mass slid in around it might just be emitting at 7am....

Just make sure the floor can take the extra load, don't want your WBS falling through it!

Too true! Added 150 kgs of mass around the stove this morning and made an attempt to cover the worst of it. Bricks last night peaked at 145 degs. We'll see what happens later today

I don't think this will be a winner but unless I try I'll never know!

[Joeboy]

Well, it has flattened the speed of room temp rise, top of twinwall flue in room is 56 deg so no increase there. Interested to see what morning brings.

[Joeboy]

Well that is a pleasant surprise. Leaving the big room(where the WS is) doors open as usual to the rest of the house, the temp drop in the big room overnight was 1.5 deg less than the previous 3 nights average across the same time period (00.00 to 06.45). The room is 7mtr x 5 mtr so I feel that's quite an impressive result?

That 1.5 deg difference was also the difference between GCH kicking in or not. It has been kicking in for a half hour at 06.45hrs since we returned from Turkey. This morning it did not.

Didn't expect that, hoped for it but honestly thought 'no chance'.
As I now have a firm base underfoot for RE in general across the good 8 months I play for eroding the impact of FF in the poor RE shoulder months. I think this does that?

There is improvement to be made in the side bricks as i could cut them flat or pack the concave insides with sand to improve conduction area between the two layers of storage bricks. I could also cut up some bricks as there is room for another row at about 2/3rds width. I reckon I can easily go beyond the 200kg goal (150 kg at moment).

The room peaked at 22.1 degs last night and was 17.7degs at Hive trigger time this morn. I am very happy with this result as the gear was just sitting about at CasaDe, now its in the RE world and working!

Tonight i'll try it with doors closed.

[AE-NMidlands]

Well that is a pleasant surprise. Leaving the big room(where the WS is) doors open as usual to the rest of the house, the temp drop in the big room overnight was 1.5 deg less than the previous 3 nights average across the same time period (00.00 to 06.45). The room is 7mtr x 5 mtr so I feel that's quite an impressive result?

That 1.5 deg difference was also the difference between GCH kicking in or not. It has been kicking in for a half hour at 06.45hrs since we returned from Turkey. This morning it did not.

Could it just be that it is very mild outside this morning? Accuweather is showing minima of 5 yesterday and 10 today for where I am.
A

[Joeboy]

Well that is a pleasant surprise. Leaving the big room(where the WS is) doors open as usual to the rest of the house, the temp drop in the big room overnight was 1.5 deg less than the previous 3 nights average across the same time period (00.00 to 06.45). The room is 7mtr x 5 mtr so I feel that's quite an impressive result?

That 1.5 deg difference was also the difference between GCH kicking in or not. It has been kicking in for a half hour at 06.45hrs since we returned from Turkey. This morning it did not.

Could it just be that it is very mild outside this morning? Accuweather is showing minima of 5 yesterday and 10 today for where I am.
A

Fair point AE,
I thought of that and no doubt a contribution. Too much of a co-incidence though that the heating has kicked in every morning since late Oct( 26th i think and we have had mild days) and the day after I trial thermal mass it doesn't? I hope it is the mass doing the heavy lifting!

I will report back on all pro's and cons. First is of course that it's Fugly in its current incarnation, second is that the heat up of room is now slower although on the plus side it's smoother. I am currently running on pine and have Air in set at around 40%. Hoping switching to hards and increasing air in will keep the balance as the cold bites.

[Bugtownboy]

Joe, I think we underestimate the value of thermal mass within a house. I accept it has less direct impact on energy use, but it’s importance to general ‘background’ comfort is often overlooked.

OK, only personal observations, but living in a modern, ‘well insulated’ modern house then moving to a 1930’s house with all internal walls built from double skinned pressed red brick, external walls with CWI - pressed red brick on the inner skin.

Modern extension but better insulated than the ‘core’

One stud (not me ) in the bathroom.

I’d say push the experiments on thermal mass as far as you can, appreciating there has to be an aesthetic balance

Certainly makes for a comfortable home - great way of evening out the peaks and troughs.

[Joeboy]

Joe, I think we underestimate the value of thermal mass within a house. I accept it has less direct impact on energy use, but it’s importance to general ‘background’ comfort is often overlooked.

OK, only personal observations, but living in a modern, ‘well insulated’ modern house then moving to a 1930’s house with all internal walls built from double skinned pressed red brick, external walls with CWI - pressed red brick on the inner skin.

Modern extension but better insulated than the ‘core’

One stud (not me ) in the bathroom.

I’d say push the experiments on thermal mass as far as you can, appreciating there has to be an aesthetic balance

Certainly makes for a comfortable home - great way of evening out the peaks and troughs.

Cheers BTB, I have sourced 40 of storage bricks which I will collect tomorrow. I need to find a stone cutting circular saw blade so I can cut the edges of the concave side to make all flat. I'll then do what i can to fit as many of that 300kgs around the stove and as flat to flat as possible in a Jenga style to maximise thermal flow from one to the other. They will all be sprayed matt black. I've got a decent sized cherry tree branch and reckon i can cut some nice slices of that to act as a thermal stop to slow down the immediate dumping of the heat from bricks to air. Might involve hidden wiring to sim the look of a wood stack from the outside view. it looks good in my mind, we'll see!

At the end of the day, its a little to no cost inexpensive thermal battery that will never breakdown. seems worth having a crack at if only for the Craick?

[Stinsy]

I think we underestimate the value of thermal mass within a house.

Modern building techniques have moved even further away from thermal mass. All stud frame enveloped in 140mm of Celotex with a skin of brick for ascetics.

I remember the postwar 3-bed semi I lived in years ago. The boiler broke and the company providing "boiler cover" took many months to fix it, but a couple of fan heaters kept it warm with their thermostat kicking in for a few mins every 20mins or so. Then we went to stay with family over Xmas and the bricks got cold. Took the fan heaters running for 48hrs straight to warm the place up again. Thermal mass provides a pleasant radiant heat that compares favourably with convection heaters that make you always feel cold whatever the reading on the thermometer.

[Bugtownboy]

Totally agree Stinsy.

There’s a lot that can be ‘measured’ but there’s always the feel of a home. How do you cheaply/easily incorporate thermal mass into modern homes - utilising building waste as a central core ? If it was a hardcore sort of waste, would need to be bound with some sort of concrete ?

This is just idle musings - love to hear others thoughts on thermal mass - think Joe is doing a sterling job In one direction.