Fastest charge inverters

[sharpener]

Thanks for the info AlBargey.
So under G98 for this inverter, internal limiter is fine, and g100 not needed?
Can a homeowner set the 3.68w limit themselves, or, do homeowners have to be locked out for dno to be happy.

If I can straight swap the grid tied, to the Multi 48/5000II, without doing anything dno related, it would be a great, and yes, over worrying

I have the identical setup you are contemplating @NoraBatty, see sig. Whole house is normally behind the Victron tho I have bypass switches as well.

The DNO (WPD now NG) were happy with a self-install. Don't know how it would have gone though if I were not a Chartered Engineer.

They wanted export limit of 3.7kW and max inverter power of 3.7kW. I sent them screenshots of these settings but they have not insisted on them being locked and outwith my control. I don't understand the logic behind the inverter limit, originally it didn't bother me as I only had two Pylontech modules which restricted the inverter power to less anyway. I may try and re-visit all this as I am trying to move off deemed export bc I have a big surplus in the summer which I am not currently being paid for.

So if you can I would argue that the 3.7kW export limit is all the protection a DNO needs. It is no business of theirs whether you choose to discharge your batteries at 100A while cooking your supper.

We find the 5kVA with 10.65 kWh storage is OK for normal domestic use if we are not gung-ho. But in winter we run an oil AGA 24/7, we would need an extra battery module for cooking otherwise. Not sure how it will work next winter with a 12kW(t) HP as well.

DIY installation has no particular probs for anyone reasonably competent at wiring, lots of help here or Victron forum. Having scanned it for two years now I wouldn't go for two parallel 3kVA units, certainly not if trying to configure so one can export and the other can't, asking for trouble IMO unless you want to spend yr evenings writing flows in NodeRed.

[NoraBatty]

Thanks for the info AlBargey.
So under G98 for this inverter, internal limiter is fine, and g100 not needed?
Can a homeowner set the 3.68w limit themselves, or, do homeowners have to be locked out for dno to be happy.

If I can straight swap the grid tied, to the Multi 48/5000II, without doing anything dno related, it would be a great, and yes, over worrying

I have the identical setup you are contemplating @NoraBatty, see sig. Whole house is normally behind the Victron tho I have bypass switches as well.

The DNO (WPD now NG) were happy with a self-install. Don't know how it would have gone though if I were not a Chartered Engineer.

They wanted export limit of 3.7kW and max inverter power of 3.7kW. I sent them screenshots of these settings but they have not insisted on them being locked and outwith my control. I don't understand the logic behind the inverter limit, originally it didn't bother me as I only had two Pylontech modules which restricted the inverter power to less anyway. I may try and re-visit all this as I am trying to move off deemed export bc I have a big surplus in the summer which I am not currently being paid for.

So if you can I would argue that the 3.7kW export limit is all the protection a DNO needs. It is no business of theirs whether you choose to discharge your batteries at 100A while cooking your supper.

We find the 5kVA with 10.65 kWh storage is OK for normal domestic use if we are not gung-ho. But in winter we run an oil AGA 24/7, we would need an extra battery module for cooking otherwise. Not sure how it will work next winter with a 12kW(t) HP as well.

DIY installation has no particular probs for anyone reasonably competent at wiring, lots of help here or Victron forum. Having scanned it for two years now I wouldn't go for two parallel 3kVA units, certainly not if trying to configure so one can export and the other can't, asking for trouble IMO unless you want to spend yr evenings writing flows in NodeRed.

Thanks Sharpner,
That does help focus the mind a little.
See what this guy says today. I may just swap the grid tied for the multi 5000. If DNOs seem happy with the limits on the software side then it makes life easier, and it can be treated as a cheeky 3.68kw straight swap.
Again if i can get someone in, even though it will cost more, the speed and efficiency of install will be worth it.

I run either a 10 or 12kw midea ASHP myself. I can never remember accurately what its called.
If you have read anything ive written on it, it was installed by blind cowboys rather than anyone even barely competent in plumbing That said, i still had decent efficiency last winter, and it ticked along with a few hundred watts most of the time. Heating cycles normally taking up about 2kw of power.
I am using a controller called homely with it.
I think i downloaded its usage for the month that covers coldest week in Janurary this year, when we saw -10C . We did have the heating up higher that week, due to my elderly dad visiting, so it was obviously working much harder than normal during that time.
I think our heaviest use day that week was 60kwh of consumption.
I can see if i have it, and post the consumption up for you, so you have a rough idea of what you are looking at if it may help?
I am unsure what agile pricing was that day, but not hard to check. I may have added to the loads if cheap.

As ive mentioned, most days we were around 20-25kwh of usage, with the normal 2kw daily usage, and rarely did i see the BG energy thing for the smart meter, go above 3.6kw. It certainly does when the electric is free!

[sharpener]

I run either a 10 or 12kw midea ASHP myself. I can never remember accurately what its called.
If you have read anything ive written on it, it was installed by blind cowboys rather than anyone even barely competent in plumbing That said, i still had decent efficiency last winter, and it ticked along with a few hundred watts most of the time. Heating cycles normally taking up about 2kw of power.

Was that installed by Good Energy? IIRC they exclusively fit Midea. Quoted me for 2 x 12kW whereas several Vaillant installers agree (one) 12kW Arotherm plus is all I need. Hopefully we will see next month.

Still waiting for Octopus to respond about smart meter. Their Cosy tariff looks better since they have added 2 hrs 2200 - 2400 as it means I can heat the living room from the thermal store 1600 - 1900 and then get a third go at recharging both thermal store and batteries on the cheap.

[NoraBatty]

It was fitted under the last eco grant round for the previous owner, using somewhat local cowboy electricians and plumbers.
The electrician they used has now gone out of business.
The plumbers, sadly for anyone else installed by them are still operating.

2x 12 kw seems very excessive, unless you live in an office block or Buckingham palace.
The 12kw midea replaced a grant vortex 15-21kw.
How that performed, i am not sure, but it was left here decommissioned when we bought the place.

[Fintray]

It was fitted under the last eco grant round for the previous owner, using somewhat local cowboy electricians and plumbers.
The electrician they used has now gone out of business.
The plumbers, sadly for anyone else installed by them are still operating.

2x 12 kw seems very excessive, unless you live in an office block or Buckingham palace.
The 12kw midea replaced a grant vortex 15-21kw.
How that performed, i am not sure, but it was left here decommissioned when we bought the place.

I've just seen on Heat pump monitor 2x12kW Arotherms installed in a 400M2 office building but for a house it does seem excessive, depends of course the house size and heat loss .

[NoraBatty]

Spoke to my friends brother.
He has no experience fitting victron stuff but is willing to get up to scratch and do so.
He has recommended going big out of the gate, to maximise TOU's and future proof with the plan that we can always limit output or even downsize, but cant easily go bigger without further DNO approval.

With that in mind he has suggested either;
1x victron 10kw
1x sunsyk 10kw.

I did mention efficiency concerns regarding suxh a large inverter, in the days i dont want to dump battery load fast,
So he has also recommended
2x victron multi 5000s.

He is willing to come up and install, but it looks like it may have to be october to give the DNO time to respond.

What are all of your thoughts on this?

Incidentally, ive just received an email from a local firm ive chased a couple of times and been told too busy.
They are now saying they may be able to pop by and discuss next week, and will call monday to confirm a time and day.

So I may have found a local installer afterall.

[NoraBatty]

What i didnt ask, and aomeone may be able to help with,

If you apply to the DNO for g99, lets say for a 10kw system, i presume you have to give the proposed inverter make, model and size.
Whatever they come back with, yes, or no, but 8kw,
You have 3 months to install and commission.

But if they say 8kw, after you have asked for 10 with x inverter, can you then change the inverter, make, model and size to be an 8kw one, and just notify of thr change on commission, or would that be a completely new application?

I dont want to agree to install a 10kw inverter, if the DNO then limit me to 3.68 as it would be much more expensive, and much less efficient.

Chicken and egg situation.

[sharpener]

It was fitted under the last eco grant round for the previous owner, using somewhat local cowboy electricians and plumbers.
The electrician they used has now gone out of business.
The plumbers, sadly for anyone else installed by them are still operating.

2x 12 kw seems very excessive, unless you live in an office block or Buckingham palace.
The 12kw midea replaced a grant vortex 15-21kw.
How that performed, i am not sure, but it was left here decommissioned when we bought the place.

I've just seen on Heat pump monitor 2x12kW Arotherms installed in a 400M2 office building but for a house it does seem excessive, depends of course the house size and heat loss .

No, 2 x 12kW Midea. 12kW Arotherm plus is much more generously rated and I hope one will be enough for my 180 sq m barn conversion, it is a bit tight on heat loss but I have AGA MVHR and WBS as well.

Spoke to my friends brother.
He has no experience fitting victron stuff but is willing to get up to scratch and do so.
He has recommended going big out of the gate, to maximise TOU's and future proof with the plan that we can always limit output or even downsize, but cant easily go bigger without further DNO approval.

With that in mind he has suggested either;
1x victron 10kw
1x sunsyk 10kw.

I did mention efficiency concerns regarding suxh a large inverter, in the days i dont want to dump battery load fast,
So he has also recommended
2x victron multi 5000s.

He is willing to come up and install, but it looks like it may have to be october to give the DNO time to respond.

What are all of your thoughts on this?

Incidentally, ive just received an email from a local firm ive chased a couple of times and been told too busy.
They are now saying they may be able to pop by and discuss next week, and will call monday to confirm a time and day.

So I may have found a local installer afterall.

Pse can you post a list of your total equipment lineup current and now envisaged (or put it in your sig) to save us having to scroll back over the whole discussion?

Thoughts are one 5k Multi may be enough for your loads, assuming you cook on electricity but can run washer, dryer, dishwasher at night or on surplus PV.

If you are trying to charge 45kWh batteries fully in a 3hr window to run HP entirely off cheap rate you would however need a much bigger charger, maybe a 5k Multi and a separate charger would be cheaper, have lower standing loss and not give the DNO forty fits. Don't know about control but someone on Victron forum will advise.

As you see, I have got my old FIT inverter on my AC Out and newer PV on a DC/DC converter. This gives me a total of 6.9 kW battery charging from PV and 3.7 from grid which is fine for my size storage. I am not planning to add any more to run the HP, as storing it as hot water is much lower capital cost and longer life. But I see you have already bought the batts now.

[NoraBatty]

Spoke to my friends brother.
He has no experience fitting victron stuff but is willing to get up to scratch and do so.
He has recommended going big out of the gate, to maximise TOU's and future proof with the plan that we can always limit output or even downsize, but cant easily go bigger without further DNO approval.

With that in mind he has suggested either;
1x victron 10kw
1x sunsyk 10kw.

I did mention efficiency concerns regarding suxh a large inverter, in the days i dont want to dump battery load fast,
So he has also recommended
2x victron multi 5000s.

He is willing to come up and install, but it looks like it may have to be october to give the DNO time to respond.

What are all of your thoughts on this?

Incidentally, ive just received an email from a local firm ive chased a couple of times and been told too busy.
They are now saying they may be able to pop by and discuss next week, and will call monday to confirm a time and day.

So I may have found a local installer afterall.

Pse can you post a list of your total equipment lineup current and now envisaged (or put it in your sig) to save us having to scroll back over the whole discussion?

Thoughts are one 5k Multi may be enough for your loads, assuming you cook on electricity but can run washer, dryer, dishwasher at night or on surplus PV.

If you are trying to charge 45kWh batteries fully in a 3hr window to run HP entirely off cheap rate you would however need a much bigger charger, maybe a 5k Multi and a separate charger would be cheaper, have lower standing loss and not give the DNO forty fits. Don't know about control but someone on Victron forum will advise.

As you see, I have got my old FIT inverter on my AC Out and newer PV on a DC/DC converter. This gives me a total of 6.9 kW battery charging from PV and 3.7 from grid which is fine for my size storage. I am not planning to add any more to run the HP, as storing it as hot water is much lower capital cost and longer life. But I see you have already bought the batts now.

Sorry, i thought i had done a signature.

We already have a 200L hot water tank, which must have been awful to get up in the loft., as there is only enough room for it, and 1 person to stand up.
We have a complicated roof, and as such no real loft space at all for a bigger, or even a second, tank.
I would have loved a heat store, but nowhere in or out of the house to put one without digging up the garden and patio.
We downsized quite significantly, and storage space is premium.
A phase change heat store is a possibility, but batteries were the only choice really.

[sharpener]

A phase change heat store is a possibility, but batteries were the only choice really.

You would think that phase change was a relatively simple passive technology but Sunamp have made a real dog's breakfast of it, the material is OK but their engineering round it is crap. Avoid!