Part ownership of a Ripple Wind Turbine, fancy it?

Wind turbines
kla456
Posts: 54
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:42 am

Re: Part ownership of a Ripple Wind Turbine, fancy it?

#3841

Post by kla456 »

Joeboy wrote: Mon Sep 02, 2024 10:58 am
It appears to me that more PV and an export contract via mcs certification on at least part of the array removes most obstacles and stacks the account with cash for when there is no solar.

Although and to be transparent, I'm not as much of a fan of Ripple as i once was. Too many potential fault paths.
That would be my feeling also, and keeps control at home.
Still 10 years left on FIT and narry an issue.
Adokforme
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Re: Part ownership of a Ripple Wind Turbine, fancy it?

#3842

Post by Adokforme »

Thanks again @Nowty, appreciate all that you've elaborated upon.
I hadn't drilled down that far into the details, or more likely, read it and promptly forgot it. :facepalm:
Just looking at their fees then I can only imagine at start up with just a team of three they may have scraped by on a marginal return, it took two years before GF was up and generating so reckon their viablility may have been touch and go at times.
As @kia456 suggests maybe they need to show a return to investors in the coming year or two. Have to put my hand up here as we thought it a very worthwhile cause at the time and still do, accepting that as with a good proportion of start ups a return may not actually materialise.
In the five or so years since creation inflation has likely impacted overheads so perhaps not surprising a greater fee appeared. No matter, either way we've taken a share in WB to grow our winter generation figures hoping to reduce the shortfall between consumption and generation during that period. Our household PV mostly covers March to October and while this was installed prior to Ripple emerging I would still make it the priority.
As for more PV then we filled our SSE facing roof so in our case less to be gained by adding anything further to the NNW side.
With higher winter generation figures Ripples Wind turbines compliment our PV so helping toward our net zero goal. But for those living in dwellings with no roof space, or in the throws of moving, Ripple offers an option previously not available.
I'm hoping the new administration in Whitehall views Community Energy favourably by removing some of the restrictions imposed upon it and encouraging take up nationally be it with Ripple or elsewhere. The more we generate and consume locally then the less transmission losses occour, whether by importing or exporting over greater distances. :xx:
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nowty
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Location: South Coast

Re: Part ownership of a Ripple Wind Turbine, fancy it?

#3843

Post by nowty »

kla456 wrote: Mon Sep 02, 2024 10:39 am Is there an explanation given why operating costs are to be doubled for WB?
I suppose investors in the management company will need a return?
I wasn't quite sure before, but now I have found the answer on the Ripple community website,
https://community.rippleenergy.com/proj ... TF6YU9xkB0

Its higher transmission charges and the effect of index linking their management charge.
16.9kW PV > 107MWh generated
Ripple 6.6kW Wind + 4.5kW PV > 22MWh generated
5 Other RE Coop's
105kWh EV storage
60kWh Home battery storage
40kWh Thermal storage
GSHP + A2A HP's
Rain water use > 510 m3
John_S
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Location: West London

Re: Part ownership of a Ripple Wind Turbine, fancy it?

#3844

Post by John_S »

Both GF and KH's corporate structure is to have a cooperative holding company and an operating company below the holding company. It is my understanding that the commercial partners investment in the wind farms is via the operating company, at least for KH.

Neither GF nor KH cooperatives have filed their 2023 accounts with the Mutuals Public Register which is maintained by the Financial Conduct Authority. Ripple don't engage with me when I enquire about this.

https://mutuals.fca.org.uk/Search/Society/30486
https://mutuals.fca.org.uk/Search/Society/31015

The operating companies, Graig Fartha CE Turbine Limited and Kirk Hill Wind Farm limited, are up to date with their filings with Companies House. Reading their accounts shows that, in simple terms, GF pays rental of 5% of the PPA etc income to their landlord and KH pays the greater of £6 per MWh or 11% of gross income in the previous year to their landlord.

https://find-and-update.company-informa ... ng-history
https://find-and-update.company-informa ... ng-history

Thus, KH is paying more than double the rent, per output, to their landlord.
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Joeboy
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Re: Part ownership of a Ripple Wind Turbine, fancy it?

#3845

Post by Joeboy »

kla456 wrote: Mon Sep 02, 2024 11:07 am
Joeboy wrote: Mon Sep 02, 2024 10:58 am
It appears to me that more PV and an export contract via mcs certification on at least part of the array removes most obstacles and stacks the account with cash for when there is no solar.

Although and to be transparent, I'm not as much of a fan of Ripple as i once was. Too many potential fault paths.
That would be my feeling also, and keeps control at home.
Still 10 years left on FIT and narry an issue.
I thought this through a few months back even before the export contract fell into place. With the export money and if you can get on IO you'll be golden.
19.7kW PV SE, VI, HM, EN & DW
Ripple 7kW WT & Gen to date 19MWh
42kWh LFPO4 storage
95kWh Heater storage
12kWh 210ltr HWT.
73kWh HI5
Deep insulation, air leak ct'd home
Zoned GCH & Hive 2
WBSx2
Low energy bulbs
Veg patches & fruit trees
djh
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Re: Part ownership of a Ripple Wind Turbine, fancy it?

#3846

Post by djh »

John_S wrote: Mon Sep 02, 2024 1:43 pm Neither GF nor KH cooperatives have filed their 2023 accounts with the Mutuals Public Register which is maintained by the Financial Conduct Authority. Ripple don't engage with me when I enquire about this.
That's worrying. What do the FCA say?
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Joeboy
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Re: Part ownership of a Ripple Wind Turbine, fancy it?

#3847

Post by Joeboy »

nowty wrote: Mon Sep 02, 2024 12:36 pm
kla456 wrote: Mon Sep 02, 2024 10:39 am Is there an explanation given why operating costs are to be doubled for WB?
I suppose investors in the management company will need a return?
I wasn't quite sure before, but now I have found the answer on the Ripple community website,
https://community.rippleenergy.com/proj ... TF6YU9xkB0

Its higher transmission charges and the effect of index linking their management charge.


Nice work if ye can get it. Free of any performance related metric and as an investor bonus, In poor years where the 6 month fix isn't great its chopped further by a diverging AMC. Smashing! :D

I don't mind the project variance in production costs. Just the reality of the grid as is at this point in time. Even the throttling back of KH is understandable if not enjoyable. Index linked AMC's though... :facepalm:
19.7kW PV SE, VI, HM, EN & DW
Ripple 7kW WT & Gen to date 19MWh
42kWh LFPO4 storage
95kWh Heater storage
12kWh 210ltr HWT.
73kWh HI5
Deep insulation, air leak ct'd home
Zoned GCH & Hive 2
WBSx2
Low energy bulbs
Veg patches & fruit trees
kla456
Posts: 54
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:42 am

Re: Part ownership of a Ripple Wind Turbine, fancy it?

#3848

Post by kla456 »

4kw PV installed UK approx cost £5k for approx 3.4kw annual production
Ripple investment to get 3.4kw annual production would be approx £4k
Is that a reasonable comparison? - can you please correct my figures?
Just trying to see the wood for the trees.
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Joeboy
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Re: Part ownership of a Ripple Wind Turbine, fancy it?

#3849

Post by Joeboy »

kla456 wrote: Tue Sep 03, 2024 12:02 pm 4kw PV installed UK approx cost £5k for approx 3.4kw annual production
Ripple investment to get 3.4kw annual production would be approx £4k
Is that a reasonable comparison? - can you please correct my figures?
Just trying to see the wood for the trees.
What do you have now in the way of RE?

Just logged into Ripple and tried the calculator.

If you purchased:
1,405 Watts, this would generate:

3,400 kWh of electricity per year

You can choose to pay in 12 x £207 monthly instalments or in one single £2,409 payment
You could save an estimated:
£187 in your first full year of generation

£6,905 over the lifespan of the project

1,805 kg of CO2 each year

Although you are not getting those Kwh's out. You are getting the per Kwh payment which is currently 3.2p at Kirkhill and 6.5p at Graig Fatha per kWh.

Solar on your roof is a 1 to 1 with the potential to be a 1 to 2 if you can export and be on IO.

The Ripple is offsite and there are maintenance costs plus downtime plus build delays. Those are all givens after watching the first two wind farms go up.

Ripple return on WB, £187 / £2484 x 100 = 7.52% return

Hard to quantify the home PV install as we don't know what you pay per KWh. I'm going to go for 24p per kWh, please adjust as you see fit.

100% PV gen consumption, £816 / £5000 x 100 = 16.32% return

PV is VERY reliable, throw the switch and sit back. WT's are different especially on farms. Personally and from the last two experience bundles of WT farms i'd fit PV first and leave the WT's for later to pad out the portfolio. If you have the space for PV that is.
19.7kW PV SE, VI, HM, EN & DW
Ripple 7kW WT & Gen to date 19MWh
42kWh LFPO4 storage
95kWh Heater storage
12kWh 210ltr HWT.
73kWh HI5
Deep insulation, air leak ct'd home
Zoned GCH & Hive 2
WBSx2
Low energy bulbs
Veg patches & fruit trees
kla456
Posts: 54
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:42 am

Re: Part ownership of a Ripple Wind Turbine, fancy it?

#3850

Post by kla456 »

Hello Joeboy,

I'm focused on quantity of renewable generation towards nett zero, not current ROI. PV will generate over 25 years (beyond my life, but I have children) and many changes/tech improvements/Gov.interventions can be expected over that period which can upset current ROI calculations - just look at the impact of Octopus GO on EV charging, and on the ROI of batteries, or impacts when the bills come in for Hinckley Point, and many other currently unimmaginables.
Therefore its kwh of renewable generation and the current purchase cost, for me.


Ripple is perfect for those reaching for nett zero but hampered by the difficulty/cost of passiv-haus refurbishment. What's the refurbishment cost to save 5000kwh annually compared to the same investment in Ripple. I believe many (most) existing buildings (all of which must achieve nett zero by 2050) should not be refurbished but should have an equivalent investment in Ripple shares attached to the property deeds , to better effect and all the investment goes to renewable energy production instead of cu.m. of eps. and replacement of building components that may still have useful life.

To answer your questions:
I have DW (estimated 2050 kWh annually) which cost £2.2k.
70% of my last years' import was at the low rate (Octopus GO).
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