how much energy is wasted driving a petrol car

[Ken]

For a petrol car assuming 12K miles /yr at 40mpg = 300gallons/yr

The energy to just refine 1 gallon of oil and deliver petrol to the pumps is 6kwh/gallon so 300 gallons x 6kwh = 1800 kwh
Assume 1 oil change of 6 litres = 60kwh energy + delivery cost etc so assume 100kwh.

Total energy use is 1900kwh and no one has talked about oil extraction costs etc.

With 1900 kwh of energy a EV could drive 1900 x 4miles/kwh = 7600 miles. So 63% of the energy required to power a EV just from the waste of a petrol engine.

Dont start on extraction,transport and waste costs of oil. You could leave all the oil as used for ICE engines in the ground and be better off energy wise. The oil industry has become one big scam.

[AGT]

Not everyone can afford an EV though!

[Moxi]

Not everyone can afford an EV though!

That prompted me to check autotrader out as I have no idea what the second hand car market looks like and you can apparently pick up an electric car for £1,850 - but it has a battery lease so not sure what that cost entails however I did find some none lease for around 3k and battery sizes up to 50kW for sub 6k.

I suppose it depends on your needs and car preferences but it certainly looks like a healthy second hand EV market is developing which bodes well for the future take up of more EVs

Moxi

[Stinsy]

Not everyone can afford an EV though!

I don’t know if that is true anymore. There are 264 EVs on Autotrader under £5k.

Once you consider running costs it is difficult to understand how less-well-off people afford all the fuel and servicing costs associated with ICEVs!

[AGT]

Well i paid £3k for my sons first car and £3k to insure it, I couldn’t find any cheap EV’s 12 months ago so settled on a 10 year old sub 1 litre city car to get him started.

I work with many people in my own organisation who are paid the min wage and spend £1k for a car run it till it breaks or MOT costs are prohibitive, not saying that’s right or wrong but that’s happening. The same people now can’t enter the city centre due to the LEV zone.
Then when your time poor / on shifts trying to find a charger no wonder petrol will be around for a while

[Ken]

I am at a loss to know how the cost of a car EV or ICE has anything to do with the point i was making.

If you look at Autotrader there is 53 cars under£3K and 160 under £4K and thats just in autotrader. So your son could have had a better smoother performing car that would cost nothing to run except leccy , but no he is saddled with something that is going to need maintenance.

My first EV cost £4K, i ran it for 4yrs and it literally cost me nothing except for home charging leccy.

It is true though that the older EVs are not really up to long journeys but then that would not have stopped me at 18 yrs.

Regardless the modern youth are spoiled - just to have any car.

[dan_b]

I remember an animation that came out several years ago that covered this subject in some detail - the well to wheel energy cost of extracting, transporting, refining, transporting and burning petrol to move 2 tons of metal along the road is absolutely shocking. It also raised the point that something like 60% of all global shipping is transporting oil and gas around the globe.

This is also where the primary energy fallacy comes from. If we electrify all ground transport, we don't need to replace that energy consumption of the petrol/diesel burned with the same amount of additional kWh of electricity generation. You get there with about 1/3 of the energy cost - it has a disproportionately high effect on carbon generation.

There is also now a pretty healthy 2nd hand EV market, with cars of all types now available. Which also helps.

For a petrol car assuming 12K miles /yr at 40mpg = 300gallons/yr

The energy to just refine 1 gallon of oil and deliver petrol to the pumps is 6kwh/gallon so 300 gallons x 6kwh = 1800 kwh
Assume 1 oil change of 6 litres = 60kwh energy + delivery cost etc so assume 100kwh.

Total energy use is 1900kwh and no one has talked about oil extraction costs etc.

With 1900 kwh of energy a EV could drive 1900 x 4miles/kwh = 7600 miles. So 63% of the energy required to power a EV just from the waste of a petrol engine.

Dont start on extraction,transport and waste costs of oil. You could leave all the oil as used for ICE engines in the ground and be better off energy wise. The oil industry has become one big scam.

[Stinsy]

I am at a loss to know how the cost of a car EV or ICE has anything to do with the point i was making.

If you look at Autotrader there is 53 cars under£3K and 160 under £4K and thats just in autotrader. So your son could have had a better smoother performing car that would cost nothing to run except leccy , but no he is saddled with something that is going to need maintenance.

My first EV cost £4K, i ran it for 4yrs and it literally cost me nothing except for home charging leccy.

It is true though that the older EVs are not really up to long journeys but then that would not have stopped me at 18 yrs.

Regardless the modern youth are spoiled - just to have any car.

Totally agree. “Watabout poor people” has been used by the anti-EV FF lobby for years. We should always squish this nonsense anytime it is repeated.

If you genuinely need a “long range” EV (most people don’t) then a 64kWh Kona starts at £10k these days.

[Colin Deng]

I am at a loss to know how the cost of a car EV or ICE has anything to do with the point i was making.

If you look at Autotrader there is 53 cars under£3K and 160 under £4K and thats just in autotrader. So your son could have had a better smoother performing car that would cost nothing to run except leccy , but no he is saddled with something that is going to need maintenance.

My first EV cost £4K, i ran it for 4yrs and it literally cost me nothing except for home charging leccy.

It is true though that the older EVs are not really up to long journeys but then that would not have stopped me at 18 yrs.

Regardless the modern youth are spoiled - just to have any car.

£3K can almost get an EV in China
The driving distance is only within 120km

[dan_b]

Here's the animation!