Carcinogen output of WBS.

[AE-NMidlands]

You need to be very careful what your instrument is actually measuring.

Many decades ago I used an opto-electronic instrument which "measured" fine particulate as a mass concentration - except that in misty conditions it went off the scale.
More recently there are TEOMs (Tapered Element Oscillating microbalances) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tapered_e ... crobalance - very high tech and very expensive but a bit closer to the real answer!

It pays to read up in detail about your specific machine to find out what it is actually telling you...

[Joeboy]

Blimey, feeling pretty guilty now

My problem is that over on the Ivan nort forum just ten years or so ago these things we championed somewhat as a way of reducing the reliance on fossil fuels for some people, and as I had an essentially free unlimited supply of timber we ended up designing our heating system around the woodburner and solar thermal, and spending a not inconsiderable sum setting it all up. Now just a short time later we are seen as the killers of cactusville

What the heck should I do?????

Desp

Live your life my friend. If you are paying attention to the whole count of your life. Live it.

Been thinking about this for a while. We receive such benefits from the multifaceted joys of running a WS and have been doing it for 100,000 years plus in one form or another that I don't care (in this instance) what the guardian reports from Greece. We're all getting the message (headshot) one way or the other so damned if I won't enjoy the fire while I'm above ground.

Sorry if this sounds brutal and I'm sorry if some of you have poor lungs or neighbors who burn shit close to you. I don't do that and bollocks to feeling guilt over it.
If you really don't like it, speak to the people concerned and attempt to re-educate or do a geographical.
Can't do that? unlucky. Life's like that sometimes.

[Fintray]

Blimey, feeling pretty guilty now

My problem is that over on the Ivan nort forum just ten years or so ago these things we championed somewhat as a way of reducing the reliance on fossil fuels for some people, and as I had an essentially free unlimited supply of timber we ended up designing our heating system around the woodburner and solar thermal, and spending a not inconsiderable sum setting it all up. Now just a short time later we are seen as the killers of cactusville

What the heck should I do?????

Desp

Live your life my friend.

I was just about to post something similar as personally after losing power for 4 days my woodburner was a saviour by keeping us warm and heating food.

[Joeboy]

Blimey, feeling pretty guilty now

My problem is that over on the Ivan nort forum just ten years or so ago these things we championed somewhat as a way of reducing the reliance on fossil fuels for some people, and as I had an essentially free unlimited supply of timber we ended up designing our heating system around the woodburner and solar thermal, and spending a not inconsiderable sum setting it all up. Now just a short time later we are seen as the killers of cactusville

What the heck should I do?????

Desp

Live your life my friend.

I was just about to post something similar as personally after losing power for 4 days my woodburner was a saviour by keeping us warm and heating food.

With Fintray on this. Once I see a home operating cold fusion plant that is not reliant on.politics or price changes I'll write a cheque. Until then I'll keep my WS (cold dead logs etc) and define the game that I choose to play.

[Bugtownboy]

OK, I have a vested interest.

But, there does need to be a note of caution. I look to the report commissioned by DEFRA that specifically looked at the emissions produced by WBS, particularly PM2.5.

They accepted that the measurement of PM2.5’s and accurately assigning populations to wood burning was difficult - this was using accredited, scientific grade equipment.

I acknowledge that burning anything will produce particulate emissions - the amount and type of these particulates depends massively on conditions. In terms of WBS, the quality and type of fuel, the quality of the WB and the experience and ‘skill’ of its operator.

WBS still provide for many rural populations an affordable and accessible form of heating, using a fuel that, otherwise, would rot naturally - accepting rotting wood can provide an important habitat, although woodland/hedgerow management probably provides an excess for habitat purposes.

I’ve been in the situation of living in modern houses where the single heat source fails at the most inopportune time - having a realistic secondary source of energy to heat and eat is, in my opinion, an essential.

The Guardian seem to have a bee in their bonnet over WBS, always using emotive language. ‘CARCINOGENS’ - ok, but what’s the context and risk ? Grief, we’re all exposed to ‘carcinogens’ continually - cooking and eating a bacon sarnie

Nitrates in our food or water

I accept we need to burn less stuff, but there has to be a balance. In certain circumstances, WBS can be an essential item. Used well and appropriately, I firmly believe their use is proportionate and acceptable.

What I object to is the way in which the Guardian report - although I may be a tad sensitive

[Oldgreybeard]

I've had a particulate sensor outside, connected to a data logger, for a couple of years now.

Interested in what make / model that is?

I used a Plantower PMS5003 laser sensor module, connected to a Picaxe microcontroller that takes the serial data for the particulate count for the three bins (1 micron, 2.5 micron and 10 micron) and then passes that data to a 433MHz transceiver (a HC-12). The data is then received by the house data logging/display system, that logs readings ten times per hour to a USB drive. I have displays around the house showing key data, plus alarms set on some parameters, just so we know what is going on with some of the key stuff that we are reliant on, like the water pump/pressure, sewage treatment, ventilation system, etc.

I didn't originally include an air pollution alarm, as I did not think for one minute that we would have any real pollution out here in the countryside. I was more than a bit surprised by the wood smoke issue, but I've since learned that our GP (who lives about half a mile away) is even more concerned. It seems that the valley we live in is very prone to poor air quality from wood stove pollution in winter, that she also monitors it, and is now warning all her patients of the risk to health from these things.

[Joeboy]

I've had a particulate sensor outside, connected to a data logger, for a couple of years now.

Interested in what make / model that is?

I used a Plantower PMS5003 laser sensor module, connected to a Picaxe microcontroller that takes the serial data for the particulate count for the three bins (1 micron, 2.5 micron and 10 micron) and then passes that data to a 433MHz transceiver (a HC-12). The data is then received by the house data logging/display system, that logs readings ten times per hour to a USB drive. I have displays around the house showing key data, plus alarms set on some parameters, just so we know what is going on with some of the key stuff that we are reliant on, like the water pump/pressure, sewage treatment, ventilation system, etc.

I didn't originally include an air pollution alarm, as I did not think for one minute that we would have any real pollution out here in the countryside. I was more than a bit surprised by the wood smoke issue, but I've since learned that our GP (who lives about half a mile away) is even more concerned. It seems that the valley we live in is very prone to poor air quality from wood stove pollution in winter, that she also monitors it, and is now warning all her patients of the risk to health from these things.

I'm posting on this too much. Obviously have a vested interest in our WS. Again no regrets. Anecdote from today, driving back home with Swmbo, country roads etc and swmbo says 'what's,that smell?'. Acrid, chemical heavy smell coming into car. I said someone is burning unseasoned wood. Middle of green countryside location, post Arwen trees down everywhere etc, absolutely honking. Might as well make the article,

'stupid insensitive humans don't learn or care....again'.

It's akin to living in a valley with others then being surprised when their behaviors have an effect. Literally, where do you go from there? How deep should this go? I am not having a dig at OGB but sadly when we live with others around us can have an impact and not always great.

Eventually I'll be legislated out of WS existence on the back of some wankers that don't know how to behave. The other choice....Spot fines for wet wood burners. Those who burn plastics to have their reproductive capacity curtailed due to stupidity that should not be ongoing to other generations. it truly is a knotty one. Should I be subject to a tax for my WS pollution while all other sneaky polluters go free or just quietly euthanized by the Doc to appease new valley dwellers? I don't have an answer beyond good practice.

[Ken]

Volcanoes -zillion tons of particulates
Forset fires trillion tons
Drax million tons
domestic 100 tons
burning petrol/diesel ?

Figs provided for indicative comparison only.

Last yr had to chop down dutch elm disease trees. I chopped them up. The chippings became mulch and therefore compost etc. The wood i chopped up and will burn and the ash will be returned to the ground as valuable nutriments. No waste at all.
What would nature do - decay over many yrs producing methane which is a much worse pollutant.

Need to compare with the alternatives and certainly in my book burning gas is far worse at world pollution level.

[Joeboy]

Volcanoes -zillion tons of particulates
Forset fires trillion tons
Drax million tons
domestic 100 tons
burning petrol/diesel ?

Figs provided for indicative comparison only.

Last yr had to chop down dutch elm disease trees. I chopped them up. The chippings became mulch and therefore compost etc. The wood i chopped up and will burn and the ash will be returned to the ground as valuable nutriments. No waste at all.
What would nature do - decay over many yrs producing methane which is a much worse pollutant.

Need to compare with the alternatives and certainly in my book burning gas is far worse at world pollution level.

Same here Ken, helping next year's apple crop. Away to a mates house this morn to help him process post Arwen trees. Payment is logs & laughs. they will heat our home and offset our gas use across Winter 23. Assuming I'm not deid.

[Ken]

So we best get rid of all the animals producing methane (not us of course). All the transport. All the heating. etc etc - total B

Thats the problem with public opinion, far to black and white when it fact there is no such thing it is ALL grey. No balanced discussion of pros/cons and balanced decision - the news says this so it must be correct and balanced. There is always another side to every story. The gov. as already introduced measures to reduce this problem as a result of the Defra report. My only contribution would be to ban open fires and as in fact they are heat net negative, win all round.

The Gov is not going to ban WS as their pollution is just a drop in the ocean. The jets flying around are doing more damage than WS.