Impressive bit of waste reduction

[marshman]

OGB, so did I until I read that book and looked into it further. As with many things it is not as clear cut as we sometimes think it is. A bit like what I think was the misguided knee jerk reaction to get rid of plastic straws - under the "ban single use plastics" banner.

What is really needed is a concerted campaign, be it carrot or stick or both, to try to get people dispose of their waste properly in the right waste channels and not drive 20 miles from where they get their Maccy D from (other fast foods are available) and then lob it out of the car window down a lane when they are done with it. Or better still eat their meals at home, freshly prepared in their kitchen - no packaging required! Whoops nearly went on a full scale rant

[Fintray]

Surprising just how carbon intensive making paper is, I'd never have guessed this, I just felt intuitively that plastic must be bad, paper must be good.

It takes a lot of energy to convert a tree into its individual fibres!
I remember visiting a paper machinery manufacturer to do some equipment trials and whilst looking round the factory was shown some refiners (used to condition the fibres just prior to making the paper) and the refiners had a 20MW drive motor.

When the paper enters the drying section (the point where steam heated cylinders drive off the excess water) the paper sheet is roughly 80% water/20% fibre/filler. So, a machine making say 20t/hr would have to convert 80ton of water into steam every hour and along with all the other processes involved in making paper it is a huge figure. I remembered figures of £2M+ each for electricity and gas bills for a quarter and that was over 25 years ago.

[Moxi]

I didnt know Tesco had started recycling TFP OGB, thanks for the link, we have Tesco's deliveries so I will ask the driver this morning (Friday delivery) if they are set up to accept returns of TFP via the delivery van - we don't travel to the store itself as its miles away and we find shopping online keeps the casual shopping additions to a minimum.

Morrisons do a paper bag instead of plastic now but charge 25p for one which seems counter intuitive and as pointed out above when they get wet they quickly lose structural integrity and in North Wales they get wet quick! Yesterday we harvested 242 Watts as the weather was gales with horizontal rain throughout

Moxi

[Oldgreybeard]

By coincidence, my wife's just left for Tesco a few minutes ago, with a large sack of thin film plastic and bags. The nearest Tesco to us is about 18 miles away, so we only make that trip about once every 6 weeks or so. We started getting grocery deliveries during lockdown and have stuck with it, as it's easier and avoids the trek to the supermarket, although we use Ocado, rather than Tesco. Ocado accept their own plastic bags for recycling, but not anyone else's, unfortunately. Not sure about Tesco, as last time we checked we were outside their delivery area.

[Moxi]

I will advise when I have spoken to the delivery driver (and possibly someone in Tesco HQ)

Moxi

[Moxi]

I decided to approach Tesco direct rather than bother the delivery driver who probably wouldn't know.

Long story short they don't at present accept TFP recycling via the delivery vans, but they liked the idea and have passed it to the relevant part of the business for consideration. I followed that up with a request that my conversation and enquiry be passed to James Bull (head of packaging) for his information, in an effort to give the idea some impetus.

Who knows, the net effect of our conversations may result in a modest improvement for the environment in the near future? Fingers crossed.

Moxi

[Bugtownboy]

Good luck Moxi, hope it proves positive.

The plastic recycling at our local Tesco appears very popular - at least two of the cages they use for stock get filled on a weekly basis. It’s a pity that so much plastic is in the system to begin with, though.

Ours is a small Tesco serving a relatively rural/semi-rural community.

[richbee]

OGB, so did I until I read that book and looked into it further. As with many things it is not as clear cut as we sometimes think it is. A bit like what I think was the misguided knee jerk reaction to get rid of plastic straws - under the "ban single use plastics" banner.

What is really needed is a concerted campaign, be it carrot or stick or both, to try to get people dispose of their waste properly in the right waste channels and not drive 20 miles from where they get their Maccy D from (other fast foods are available) and then lob it out of the car window down our lane when they are done with it. Or better still eat their meals at home, freshly prepared in their kitchen - no packaging required! Whoops nearly went on a full scale rant

And a campaign to get certain councils to recycle far more - Northumberland are rubbish - no plastic food or other containers of any kind, only plastic bottles (& obviously cardboard, paper, tins etc). I emailed them and they said they couldn't do anything about it as they had a 25(?) year deal with one of the big corporations to incinerate all the waste - which may result in some heat and power being generated, rather than landfill, but must be worse than recycling it? Or is that another of the paper vs plastic bag tings, where it isn't as obvious as it might seem?

[smegal]

And a campaign to get certain councils to recycle far more - Northumberland are rubbish - no plastic food or other containers of any kind, only plastic bottles (& obviously cardboard, paper, tins etc). I emailed them and they said they couldn't do anything about it as they had a 25(?) year deal with one of the big corporations to incinerate all the waste - which may result in some heat and power being generated, rather than landfill, but must be worse than recycling it? Or is that another of the paper vs plastic bag tings, where it isn't as obvious as it might seem?

I think it isn't as obvious as it seems.

Plastic bottles are pretty much guaranteed to be recycled. The other mixed plastic is the stuff that used to be "recycled" by sticking it in a container and sending it abroad. Interestingly, I have a friend who works for a pipe manufacturer. He says that scrap PE prices are through the roof. I wonder how long it'll be until Caravan Using Nomadic Travellers start driving round shouting "any old iron or plastic?".

Incineration is an emotive topic. I personally don't have a problem as it solves a waste issue, with recyclables such as metals being recovered, and tends to generate electricity (and sometimes district heating) in urban areas where there's a demand. Yes the plastic element is a fossil fuel, but it's still displacing gas generation. The flue gas is also well cleaned, so that side isn't an issue.

[Oldgreybeard]

On the topic of recycling, I was impressed with the way the contents of our waste skips were handled. The receipt for every skip that was collected during our house build was accompanied by a written report itemising everything that had been recycled and how much of each category there was in the skip. About the only stuff they couldn't recycle was plasterboard; they charged extra for plasterboard waste and asked me to keep it segregated from everything else.