Iron-Air Batteries

[Ken]

All this R&D is good but until anyone really knows how they will end up being used who knows which is best.

I note Redflow is no more.

In the description you posted i note that the discharge rate may not be high enough. Any batt could potentially be hardly used, and thats my first concern, but more importantly when it is required it needs a high discharge rate.

This i found interesting https://reneweconomy.com.au/a-near-100- ... ffordable/ As it gives an insight as to how battery might get used.

To most batts seem the obvious answer but they could be overdone and not viable unless they have some kind of capacity contract with the grid. I think the grid like them because it possibly will save some costly transmision.

[Moxi]

That's a shame about Redflow being in voluntary administration, lets hope the figures stack up sufficiently for the administrators to get them out of administration and back in to production, they seem to have an international order book that looks reasonably healthy , its just the home market that looking weaker than expected.

As a lithium alternative for large scale static batteries the Zinc Bromide chemistry has always looked like a good option, indeed as a static flow its a very easy DIY system to build and has quite a following. The addition of pumps and circulatory systems obviously brings complexity and maintenance - hence costs and maybe this is where Redflow have come unstuck trying to compete directly with Lithium chemistry rather than filling the niche behind Lithium batteries as a "poor mans Lithium alternative" only time will tell.

Moxi

[Mart]

In the description you posted i note that the discharge rate may not be high enough. Any batt could potentially be hardly used, and thats my first concern, but more importantly when it is required it needs a high discharge rate.

Hi Ken, if you were referring to me, then that's why I talked about a large number of units, in order to get the necessary power, as well as the energy for a LDES role.

Of course only theoretical, but I'd have thought 38GW for 4 days (or something along those lines) would help. And of course LDES of all types will probably scale up in line with our needs and growing leccy demand, as we aim to remove as much FF generation as is sensible/economic for the net zero target ~2050.

[dan_b]

Surely you mean 38GWh Mart

[Mart]

Surely you mean 38GWh Mart

Next, putting all that aside. If** the technology is cheap enough, then doesn't that possibly suggest that it can be deployed on vast scale? So perhaps 100 of these deployed around the UK, that's 8.5GW of power when RE is very low. Or maybe 400 of them (or variations in numbers and size) providing 38GW of power.

[dan_b]

Got me there then!

[Mart]

Got me there then!

I'm in a sniper position, looking for movement!

But have to keep stressing, no idea if this technoilogy, like others, is viable. My whole post hinges around their claim of being 1/10th the cost, which I don't believe.

So just pondering based on that mighty 'if' if the actual cost is cheap enough to make the technology viable. Of course it doesn't have to be fully economical, just cheap enough to be supported through some RE package to bring the game together.

I'm also not sure how much power we will need. I think I recall a figure of 20GW* as a Gov target (for LDES), but that sounds a bit low, even with interconnectors and RE overcapacity. And then there's energy, is 4 days enough ..... doubt it for extreme cases, or will we use gas CCGT or OCGT at those times.

It's quite a big subject, when you overthink about it.


*Edit - It might be that I'm recalling a 20GW LDES figure for the UK to reach net zero in the 2030's, but a higher figure is needed as we transition to the leccy economy and UK demand increases 2x to 3x what it is today? I'll have a nose, but I seem to recall that numbers/figures are tricky to pin down, as the future is yet to be written and all the parts are still moving fast at the moment.

[Moxi]

Instead of this battery technology for the days when the sun doesn't shine and the wind ain't blowing (they should build all the countries wind turbines where I live because there's no such day when the wind doesn't blow ) then wouldn't we be better of with tidal energy systems dotted around the coast - the moon isn't affected by weather on Earth and therefore the tides are reliable and dependable, its the ultimate "gravity battery".

Tidal barrages seem a bit mute regards the implications for wading birds and tidal margin environments but the reality still remains that done right the typical barrage will only shift the time of low and high tide rather than remove low and high tide. We just need to decouple private investment and return on investment to get a generating system that delivers power without costing the environment.

Moxi