Hybrit delivers first steel made using hydrogen.

[Stan]

https://www.theguardian.com/science/202 ... using-coal

[Mr Gus]

Very good, Very necessary change in large industry.

[Oliver90owner]

Steel may be termed ‘green’ but what ‘colour’ was the hydrogen that was used?

Somehow, I doubt that was ‘green’ hydrogen.

A step to demonstrate the process, yes, but may actually have been greater CO2 emissions involved than in normal steel making.

[Bugtownboy]

There’s another article on the same page indicating the Hydrogen will be produced from renewables.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... ssil-fuels

[nowty]

The first batch from the story (Sweden) was that it was from green hydrogen, but what will the bulk of "green steel" actually come from in huge quantities, like from China, USA, etc ?

But at least, unless the technology for making steel without coking coal exists its still going to be made with coal, so I think its a positive step forward.

With all the hype around hydrogen, I suspect that ultimately hydrogen with fuel cells might end up being the future of EVs, if even a decade or two away. Surely the problem with battery EVs is the shear weight you have to transport around with you and the longer range EVs are getting heavier and heavier. Plus the ludicrous power infrastructure required to charge the EVs if they are all ultimately going to be battery EVs.

[Mart]

Not many car companies left developing HFCV's, most have dropped them now that BEV's are simpler, cheaper to buy, maintain and fuel.

Only really Toyota left, and they sell almost none, whilst campaigning around the World to get countries to water down their BEV plans and requirements, because they bet so much on HFCV's and hybrids. In fact I think Toyota is the only company in the US, who's corporate average fuel efficiency figure went down over the last few years.

Infrastructure wise, BEV charging is rolling out nicely, and of course many millions of households have their own 'fuelling' station.

But perhaps the biggest issue for HFCV's is that they'll require an increase in the UK leccy supply of around 44%, (v's 10% for BEV's) just for cars.

Also perhaps worth considering the complexity of a HFCV car, and the space needed for the two or three large tanks, which means you can't build a simple flat floor, the way BEV's are now being built - the 'skateboard' design.

Not 100% sure what the issue with weight is, but if it's to do with efficiency, then it's important to remember that weight doesn't really impact fuel consumption, once at speed, that's dependent on air resistance. Also, the TM3 LR, would appear to meet all distance needs already, with its current battery size, and speed of recharge during a break taken say every 3hrs (though range would be more like 4-5hrs). And of course battery energy density is still improving. So a heavier BEV may consume slightly more Wh's/mile than a lighter HFCV, but given the HFCV gross leccy input is 3-4x more per mile to start with, then a slightly heavier weight* for the BEV is almost negligible in comparison.

*Lastly, on the subject of weight, the TM3 LR is approx 1,847kg, whilst the Toyota Mirai (HFCV) is approx 1,925kg.

[AE-NMidlands]

*Lastly, on the subject of weight, the TM3 LR is approx 1,847kg, whilst the Toyota Mirai (HFCV) is approx 1,925kg.

You mean about 1.8 and 1.9 Tonnes respectively.
Whereas our current Meriva (which we use as little as possible) is about 1.5 Tonnes while our first mini was about 600kg, although nowhere near as as safe - for the driver and passengers anyway. Nowadays it's the other road users who suffer the impacts instead of course.

People just don't seem to be able to get it: overall energy use has to drop, and that means less personal transport, i.e less travelling overall. There are no special cases. Anybody see what Greta said, or does driving electric cars absolve people from responsibility for the climate catastrophe we are bequeathing to the next generation?
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[Bugtownboy]

*Lastly, on the subject of weight, the TM3 LR is approx 1,847kg, whilst the Toyota Mirai (HFCV) is approx 1,925kg.

You mean about 1.8 and 1.9 Tonnes respectively.
Whereas our current Meriva (which we use as little as possible) is about 1.5 Tonnes while our first mini was about 600kg, although nowhere near as as safe - for the driver and passengers anyway. Nowadays it's the other road users who suffer the impacts instead of course.

People just don't seem to be able to get it: overall energy use has to drop, and that means less personal transport, i.e less travelling overall. There are no special cases. Anybody see what Greta said, or does driving electric cars absolve people from responsibility for the climate catastrophe we are bequeathing to the next generation?
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It’s not just energy.

We have to look at our overall consumption of resources - whatever they are. We are denuding the Earth of resources - we cannot change the resource abuse just to minimise CO2 production.

Gus is correct. Personal transport surely has to undergo a fundamental change. BEV’s are an amazing tool to reduce CO2 production but, seriously, do we all need to own one to use for, what, on average two hours a day.

The time has come for a radical change in the way that we live, surely.

Otherwise we’re just pee’ing in the wind and might as well call it a day b

[Mr Gus]

This additional weight & size is why we pondered so over so many different brands & models, it was about size weight, & what we see as unnecessary weight.

Sadly the tesla is seen as "freaking fast" (acceleration) by many which TBH doesn't fit into green driving well, (serves merely as a lucky incidental), which as we keep pointing out the old leaf has plenty if low end oomph too, people need teaching more about the ability of electric motors for cars generally so their is more rationale to a purchase.

Thus the single motor SR+ choice for a heavy, big car, if Tesla had made a smaller, lighter car with the same range likely that's what we'd have got.

NB wife did a 200+ mile trip yesterday for work (fish & beef dripping cooked chips on the coast for lunch too) ..she stopped needlessly on the way home for a few minutes at Thetford supercharger (ever busy) just to put a few miles in as a safety net as traffic was bad.

Of course neither daughter, nor wife took a picture of the new banksy skip gull piece, for me, ..dog sitting "monsieur velcro"

[AE-NMidlands]

Personal transport surely has to undergo a fundamental change. BEV’s are an amazing tool to reduce CO2 production but, seriously, do we all need to own one to use for, what, on average two hours a day?

The time has come for a radical change in the way that we live, surely.

Otherwise we’re just pee’ing in the wind and might as well call it a day b

That is the point I am trying to make. We shouldn't forget embodied energy either (i.e a new car isn't necessarily justified by a lower or alternative fuel consumption.)
The personal mobility people that have come to expect comes with a massive environmental cost. If you can't do it by bus, or train and bike, or a combination of them with the odd taxi then you will (should) have to pay a big premium for using private transport. If you just can't be arsed to put up with the hassle of public transport then you shouldn't be going, or should pay the price that compensates everyone else putting their own musclepower in. Does anyone else here get pi**ed off and even angry when the main pelican crossing out of a major railway station makes you wait 90 seconds in the spray and traffic fumes before allowing you across? I do.

If (like me recently) you are emptying your late mother's flat then that is one occasion when you would just use the car (even hire a van) and take the costs on the chin.
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