London mayor *warns* "Entire tube line may close"

[Mr Gus]

Yes it's that time of year again, when the still expanding tube lines of London with copious investment begs for more covid cash (£1.9bn shortfall)

So what he means is ONE of the 11 lines may close, "possibly"

Or, more than 100 bus routes being withdrawn (lots of older diesel polluting ICE off the road no doubt)
reduced tube services generally, ..all this at a time when they are talking "night tubes" !? ..clearly off the table imminently.
Road tunnel closures (threat) for maintenance reasons.
Bail out ends on 11 December.

Why weren't expansion plans halted & mothballed to simply support the pre-existing lines?

He is after 500 million to see them through till april, plus £1.2 billion fo 2022 / 2023.
TFL has apparantly had approaching 4 billion pounds to keep afloat during covid thus far.

Obviously that's a lot of jobs in stasis.

But whilst a big city I cannot see others being bailed out in the same manner elsewhere in the uk.
In the meantime its not a "just londoners paying for this" the key line I read was a gvt spokesman citing " getting TFL back on a sustainable financial footing in a way that is fair to taxpayers across the country" <<<WRONGLY PERCEIVED (thanks AL)

Why does the whole populace pay for london's infrastructure exactly? <<<WRONGLY PERCEIVED (thanks AL)

How will this affect public micro mobility in coming months IF not in lockdown, (e-scooters & the like) ? will it speed through laws of legislation sitting on the eternal backburner to "keep london moving" ..or simply an exception for London zoned micro mobility & non legal status for the rest of the "union" ?

[Stinsy]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/lond ... -qtn8cc9gh

Money has to come from somewhere!

[Mr Gus]

I guess (& hope) there was some humour intended in there Stinsy?

Those figures for high pay are trotted out from time to time, wonder how many drivers they have overall & what % those 8 ??? drivers who hit that mark which doesn't break down hours, unsocial hours, covered shifts, bank holidays etc involves.

(I like a bit more info where possible, knowing how sh1t sticks)

Its a mess at TFl & its a good degree of London mobility that is both being highlighted & held as bargaining chips.

I am truly interested as to micro mobility, & the way the latest covid mutation has erupted, escooters make sense (not as hire schemes)
As a family after getting away to france & germany summer last year we accepted that it was likely 2+ years of non travel / travel restrictions & disruption (minimum) ..as pointed out by my kid, she was 16 by a month & is close to 18 now with no end in sight & another covid winter, (airline travel booking diving again, easyjet 1 billion £+ in debt many of those flight & holiday vouchers are now 1/2 way expired) if TFL drivers strike / get downsized, quit over pay london still needs to be mobile, so govt needs to give us all details as to likely change to adapt & distance rather than the usual wall of silence & packed buses (in part because there's less of them & lockdown on previous levels is less likely regardless of likely need)

[AlBargey]

Why does the whole populace pay for london's infrastructure exactly?

It doesn't. I think maybe your gripes should be with the current governments desire to privatise and diminish public transport. It seems to be a shoddy government spox insinuation about tax for funding which is false.

Unlike pretty much every other European city and most/all? Other UK cities, tfl is mostly funded by fare payers, rather than Central government funding by the 'populace'. In fact tfl not only has to mostly self fund, but also pay for road infrastructure with public transport users cash.

Which is why during a pandemic with a significant drop in passenger fares the funding might need short term help from government, as they do for other cities all year round.

This is sadly a libertarian, anti public transport / government funded story being pushed to hide the actual reasons to deliberately underfund a better more carbon neutral public transport system.

https://www.fromthemurkydepths.co.uk/20 ... e-numbers/

"How we are funded - Transport for London" https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/about-tfl/ ... are-funded

[Mr Gus]

Thanks AL (Post edited)

It popped into my feed from the BBC reportage (which I tend to ignore as its more like "newsround" these days with dumbed down reportage) ...yes I must agree it is misleading then, damn, (reel me in damn it)

Its the ministers phraseology that got me this time! BBC should have said "temporary uk wide taxpayer assistance" rather than the vague, misleading reportage.

Any idea how long that monies would take TFL to claw itself back out of in normal times?
& anyone know what are the times for decarbonising (ie upgrading) the bus fleet properly?

How much revenue is anticipated from the now expanded congestion / ULEZ charge ? (to be set against ongoing losses)

[AlBargey]

Yeah, it's a bit of a naughty framing of a news item really!

Glad I didn't offend, sometimes insomnia posts are a bad idea! Not sure I know the answers, but the article I posted seemed to suggest that pre pandemic, even with Goerge Osbornes cuts to TFL they were on a good course, and I'd also say fairly innovative, as a mostly self funded public transport org, I wonder what they'd be like if they had proper central Gov funding!? Cycling provision in London over the last few years has really started getting much better, and I do like being able to get about 24h on the night tubes every so often!

[Mr Gus]

Nah, no worries there.
Now i'm concerned that others may think the same as myself, will see if I can find the email to state "no fair, no context" for the piece.
you only have to see the side bar pictures of some pieces to see how far down the site is going, more down at heel "what our viewers want & can relate to" "yoof tv & soundbyte chasing.

(woe is me)

[Mr Gus]

UPDATE:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... aims-mayor

Transport for London may go bankrupt without extra funds, claims mayor
Latest funding deal has ended and Sadiq Khan is seeking long-term package from Whitehall

Current support deal finished on Friday.

[Ken]

all good businesses have to cut their cloth to suit and i wonder what changes have they made to reduce their burden on the state in these difficult times. This is clearly the point being raised by the govt.

I dont for one minute think London is unique in this and i suspect all the buses and certainly trains in the land are being supported some way or other.

[Mr Gus]

I get what you are saying ken.
I got it wrong at the beginning of the thread way back in the day, this is an added post due to "cap out" (again) ..covid has been harsh, I'm not keen on London gets priority cash (which it does frequently) however if we are to recognise then non car use on crammed streets is essential (yup too many diesel buses still, I know)

What's not clear is whether this is a loan to be repayed or simply bail out money with strings attached? (It usually is)
& Its hard to cut costs to this massive infrastructure when there has been an unusual long term event with stay at home orders. (Covid)
In the lockdown, expansion to various tube lines was still happening (ie, stalled but near completion of several new station connects)

If it's a loan let's treat it as a loan ..with interest, however what's the state of bankruptcy? ..we bail it, it's sold from asunder? ..it will still have to run, costing the same money.

£600+ mill??? for the dome, empty it cost 1 million per month for 12+ months, ...sold at a pittance (around £46 million) to a US firm who sold the naming rights to O2 (telefonica) ..with all that land for its obvious purpose, with all that infrastructure.

Add on to the ticket price till repaid, then unlike Q.E. crossing toll bridge, stop that "fee"

As al bargey said, under normal operational times it's succesful, high on self sustaining, + it gets us closer to power emissions in a filthy air city (tube stations are their own form of polluting filth I grant you) ..so sustain it whilst it's grounded till it can be refloated, more use than one of many banks that went "t1ts up" surely?