PV investment & other RE investments

[Joeboy]

Hi all.

I looked at investing in these funds. This is where I got to:

Most of them are closed ends funds (as compared to open ended funds). That is, the total amount of funds invested in them generally doesn't grow. You can buy a share in a fund such as Greencoat UK wind, but only if someone else (or some other people) sell their share(s). The net amount invested in UK wind remains unchanged (ignoring changes in the value thereof). There's no increase in the total amount of funding. That is, you haven't actually contributed to more renewable energy production. E.g. While £10k invested in Greencoat results in you 'buying' 13MWh or electricity generation, it will result in 0MWh of -increased- generation. It would have been generated anyway.

If you invest in -new subscriptions- by these funds (to fund new wind farms, for example, or more likely buy existing ones from developers or other owners), then you're more likely to be able to claim that you're money will result in marginal increased generation (although the amount's not entirely clear). Or if you invest in open ended funds which have to invest in renewables (as your increased funds will force them to find more renewable energy to buy, driving development).

Abundance and Energy 4 All projects tend to be better (and Ripple I think), as you are directly funding the build out of marginal renewable generation. All other things being equal, it is probably happening faster due to your investment.

Ultimately, I just decided to pay monehy each month into carbon offsetting schemes focused on (among other things) building renewable energy capacity in poorer countries that tend to burn more coal. Sure I don't get a return, but the carbon bang for my buck looked a lot higher, reflecting that land prices etc. are lower in these places (I'll get some figures when I can). And given my massive family historic emissions, I feel I owe the world quite a bit!

Incidentally, I'm not inclined to incentivise further renewables build out in the UK (so am not going for Ripple) as we already don't burn much coal. I'll have a much bigger impact, for less money, if I focus on coal dependent countries.

Apologies that's a bit rushed, but I did quite a lot of thinking about this, so thought I'd contribute.

'Good on ye, well played.


I see and agree with the difference in impact of closed/open ended funds, yet if i own a part of it then that part is generating kWh's and i'm having that on my list, end of story. I hope to increase my volume of a funds/shares with these generating enough dividends that I can take a flier on a single RE project now and then from abundance or energy4all. As is we are ourselves close to carbon neutral in our life as is our son, I want to keep going and expand outwards.

The single point RE projects do come with increased risk by their very nature. Without a Tsunami of dividends from other larger more stable RE projects I won't be comfortable in investing in them as I am in it for the profits as well as the good. I will happily risk dividends in these smaller projects but not existing capital. Very much a chicken & egg scenario with differing choices being made!

[Moxi]

This point is similar to the interconnected debate we had a while back - good to have alternate supplies but they should not be taken as a solution rather as a partial contribution as otherwise to be reliant on others for essentials which makes you vulnerable to unexpected and unwelcome behaviour.

With enough cross border liaison countries of like minded nations can support each other and doing so makes us both stronger as a whole whilst retaining sovereign responsibility at the same time it also means we are better prepared when catastrophe strikes.

The ability of groups to set up and supply power at smaller levels equally can benefit communities and the greater population if that power is sold to the consumer at a fair rate - power like water can arguably be described as an essential and should not be subject to profit - at least up to a basic level of power with profit allowed on power consumed beyond that perhaps

Moxi

[Joeboy]

For clarity, closed end funds as defined by Google aren't quite as closed and static as we may think...

https://fsfl.foresightgroup.eu/media/f1 ... n-2021.pdf

[billi]

The Germans are fairly regretting their reliance on Russia.

And the British on their import of wood fuel from American forests , i hope

The two situations ( fueling the ability of an unencumbered
idiot to commit genocide or Drax power stations) don't really compare that well? In levels of severity, I'll take the trees any day. Although I do my own, not rely on others when it comes to trees.

Which again brings me back to my original point at Germany's regrets to have backed themselves into a corner where they can't just cut all fuel purchases from Russia as they don't have the ability to make up the shortfall. NOT a place they want to be, or indeed anyone would given the choice.

That wasn't the point anyway, I used Germany/Russia as a current example of how it would be better to be independent in power generation not beholden to the political whims and actions of others. That's just a macro example, at micro scale where I live I like to make the RE choices for myself and not to be beholden to others (political landscape) while doing some good.

Well that war was not foreseeable m the dependency on gas was and is an transition technology for Germany and the UK i hope too , to get away from coal , for sure RE ideas should have been much faster moving

[Joeboy]

And the British on their import of wood fuel from American forests , i hope

The two situations ( fueling the ability of an unencumbered
idiot to commit genocide or Drax power stations) don't really compare that well? In levels of severity, I'll take the trees any day. Although I do my own, not rely on others when it comes to trees.

Which again brings me back to my original point at Germany's regrets to have backed themselves into a corner where they can't just cut all fuel purchases from Russia as they don't have the ability to make up the shortfall. NOT a place they want to be, or indeed anyone would given the choice.

That wasn't the point anyway, I used Germany/Russia as a current example of how it would be better to be independent in power generation not beholden to the political whims and actions of others. That's just a macro example, at micro scale where I live I like to make the RE choices for myself and not to be beholden to others (political landscape) while doing some good.

Well that war was not foreseeable m the dependency on gas was and is an transition technology for Germany and the UK i hope too , to get away from coal , for sure RE ideas should have been much faster moving

Agreed, to be fair to Germany, I remember being in Germany multiple times across the last 20 years and being amazed and joyful at the amount of PV & WT deployed. Yet as this recent ongoing horror story has shown us. It was not enough, a multi stranded approach is needed (by all) with a heavy emphasis to deploying more RE.

There may come a time when historians look back on this attack on Ukraine as a genesis for a huge uptake in RE across Europe multiples beyond where we are now, I hope so.

[billi]

exactly , only one way , and hope we make it

[GarethC]

Very kind Desp, Joeboy! But I should point out my monthly spend is pretty paltry at just £37 per month. But, given that carbon offsetting is incredibly cheap, that's enough to offset 3 times my family's carbon emissions. I hope to increase it to five times (so £60/month) soon, but due to what I see as my real contribution to the fight against climate change (inventing a better (I like to think) form of secondary glazing and starting a business with it) funds are too tight to do much right now.

I'd also looked at ensuring none of my pension was invested in fossil fuel related investments. But I concluded that it wouldn't be very impactful either. As long as others worldwide are happy to own oil and gas stocks, my divestment would make not one bit of difference. More effective, I think, to use the dividends one gets from investments like that to invest in renewables (thereby reducing demand for oil and gas). And also more effective just to focus on not buying their products by insulating one's house, buying an EV etc.

[TCA]

I received an email from Energy4All today with details of the new Schools’ Energy Co-operative share offer:

https://schools-energy-coop.co.uk/share-offer/

Anybody here already a member of this existing co-op? Looks quite interesting from a very quick scan of the document:

https://schools-energy-coop.co.uk/wp-co ... -May22.pdf

[Adokforme]

I received an email from Energy4All today with details of the new Schools’ Energy Co-operative share offer:

https://schools-energy-coop.co.uk/share-offer/

Anybody here already a member of this existing co-op? Looks quite interesting from a very quick scan of the document:

https://schools-energy-coop.co.uk/wp-co ... -May22.pdf

Hi TCA, we've invested/supported in two of their previous fundraising offers, one, Energise South being very similar by installing PV upon school and community buildings. The second, Highwinds Community Energy Society raise to assist in securing a second windfarm.
They both come under the Energy4all umbrella where community benefits are at the heart of their mission, together with saving the planet of course.
I viewed their AGM via Zoom at the weekend and as usual was impressed with their committment and passion for all they seek to achieve.

The grandchildren were the "lucky" recipients of solar panels for Christmas in place of presents a couple of years ago so receiving an annual return for the foreseeable from them.

[TCA]

Thanks Adokforme.

Looking at Energise South, it does appear very similar. I can't see any financial details on their website but I'm guessing, like the Schools’ Energy Co-operative, members receive 4-5% interest annually and 5% capital is repaid every 12 months over 20 years.

The Schools’ Energy Co-operative seem to fix the electricity price that schools pay for the whole 20 years, which must be a great benefit to the schools. Especially right now! These look to be excellent initiatives.