HPC

[Mart]

Hiya Nowty, totally agree, but gonna be a bit pedantic on HPC, as the contract does include decommissioning (sort of). Basically, the CfD payments are enough (hopefully) for HPC to put money aside for decommissioning, but what they have to do, is put enough aside, so that with financial growth over the lifespan of HPC, it will be enough at end of life to pay for it.

But is that really a separate money pot like a private pension scheme or will it simply be an accounting number with the real cash going onto the treasury coffers to be used for whatever.

In other words is it more like the state pension scheme where you pay your NI contributions, but the real cost of providing them comes from future tax payers.

Hiya, my understanding is that it's for HPC (Chinese and French owners) to invest the money, and grow the fund ...... yeah, that's gonna work well! I hope it's some sort of ring-fenced fund that the UK can monitor, but I tend not to be very positive about anything regarding HPC these days.

[MoSTiE]

I wouldn't be surprised to hear that it gets further delayed and fully expect the end figure to go North of 30 billion after they have cleared up the commissioning snags that will inevitably come out of the wood work.

How many MW of RE could be built for £25 billion ?

Moxi

781 Kirkhills.
6,248 WT's
15,620,000 homes & businesses powered.

All on the current economic scale. Imagine the discounts possible....

15,625,000 US5000C Pylontech batteries with 75,000,000 kWh's of storage (approx) .... unless my maths is out.. has happened before

[nowty]

How many MW of RE could be built for £25 billion ?

781 Kirkhills.
6,248 WT's
15,620,000 homes & businesses powered.

All on the current economic scale. Imagine the discounts possible....

15,625,000 US5000C Pylontech batteries with 75,000,000 kWh's of storage (approx) .... unless my maths is out.. has happened before

I used the cheapest online price before VAT for Pylontech US5000 and I got almost 88,000,000 kWh or 88GWh.
You've just got to install one 4kW array with it on a hybrid inverter to get the 0% VAT.

[MoSTiE]

781 Kirkhills.
6,248 WT's
15,620,000 homes & businesses powered.

All on the current economic scale. Imagine the discounts possible....

15,625,000 US5000C Pylontech batteries with 75,000,000 kWh's of storage (approx) .... unless my maths is out.. has happened before

I used the cheapest online price before VAT for Pylontech US5000 and I got almost 88,000,000 kWh or 88GWh.
You've just got to install one 4kW array with it on a hybrid inverter to get the 0% VAT.

So that would power the UK for ... maybe 2 hours .... hmmm

[Mart]

Tesla Megapacks cost about $1m each, if you buy enough of them, and have 3MWh of storage, so £25bn would buy approx 100GWh of storage. So far storage, as shown in Australia, has a short(ish) payback period via arbitrage, and grid services, such as fast frequency response. But much more importantly, it boosts the economics and viability of RE by helping to smooth out some of the intermittency. Estimated intraday UK storage need for 100% RE leccy is about 500GWh.

V2G with a car fleet of 1,500GWh, plus commercial vehicles such as buses and vans parked in the afternoon/evening, could do the job for free.

Obviously not 'free', but no capital expense for the storage, as it's a by-product of the shift to BEV's. Payment for the use/service would however be needed.

[AE-NMidlands]

I wouldn't be surprised to hear that it gets further delayed and fully expect the end figure to go North of 30 billion after they have cleared up the commissioning snags that will inevitably come out of the wood work.

How many MW of RE could be built for £25 billion ?

Moxi

781 Kirkhills.
6,248 WT's
15,620,000 homes & businesses powered.

All on the current economic scale. Imagine the discounts possible....

And on top of that, think how quickly it could be ramping up to deliver MegaWatts - and earning a return on the investment - if "they" got their fingers out, sorted the planning and invested in turbine assembly lines.

Only worth doing if they got stuck into building storage too, of course. It has been researched, but our lot are only prepared to sit on their hands
and not change the grid financial structure (for some reason OffGem have decided to "re-run" their consultation about that!) but pay for a bit more research instead. I wonder who has a vested interest in continuing to charge the storage people for power going in both directions? Methinks the City makes more out of it this way...

[Moxi]

We need to speak to Ripple about storage schemes !

Moxi

[Mart]

We need to speak to Ripple about storage schemes !

Moxi

I'd be in.

I think I said this years ago on a n other site, but group funding / subsidy support for demand side batts should be considered.

My thoughts, and obviously I may be missing something (or lots of something), but demand side batts would benefit:
1. National Grid, by providing supply / negative demand at times of high demand and/or low RE generation.
2. DNO's, by reducing supply, and peak power across their networks by reducing peak demand.
3. Energy supply companies, who charge a fixed(ish) average price for domestic customers, but buy at variable rates (as well as contracted rates), so they'd rather supply less at peak prices, and buy less (export) when prices are cheap.
4. Demand side customers by avoiding peak prices and maximising any demand side generation income/savings.
5. The Gov (us) as storage helps to boost RE, which helps with emissions targets.

Just to be clear, I appreciate that very large scale batteries (as an example) on the supply side, would cost less in £/kWh to buy and install, but sharing costs and benefits across all beneficiaries may be more viable economically.

This is akin to large scale PV farms having lower CAPEX than domestic PV, but higher OPEX (land, insurance, security costs) and the value of the generation on the demand side (retail/import) is about 3x that of the supply side (wholesale).

[Joeboy]

As would I, especially at landscape scale storage level. In the meantime I have a little of this to represent smaller scale storage in the portfolio.
https://greshamhouse.com/real-assets/ne ... -fund-plc/

[billi]

....Hmm an easy way to pass on own deficits .... from that thread article "French energy giant EDF published the findings of a review into the cost and schedule of the power station taking account of the continuing impact of the Covid-19 pandemic."

From a write up of the IEA

Global renewable electricity capacity additions were over 11% lower in the first half of 2020 than in the first six months of 2019: developers connected an estimated 40 GW of solar PV, 17% less than last year, while wind expansion was down nearly 8%. Conversely, hydropower capacity additions increased in the first half of 2020, mostly owing to the commissioning of large-scale projects in the People’s Republic of China (“China”). The impact of lockdowns and movement restrictions varied by country and technology, and initial IEA data shows that in most countries not only did renewable energy developers not halt construction, but they accelerated their installation activities once restrictions were eased to make up for delays.

I suppose , i have to get my Handkerchief out to dry false tears