How will bifacial solar change UK / EU council rules for installs?

[Mr Gus]

I'm posing this question to everyone, regardless of location, so chipping in from clockman (Fra) & Billi (GDR) would widen the perspective that local councils will have to address over coming years if it is not deemed a specialist install.

For anyone in the position of a nigh on due south house we obviously get a lot of morning, daytime, evening solar heat, light, electron potential, & the idea has always been to provide some long into the day westerly facing cooling at the frontage via a canopy of solar shading windows & cooling the rooms inside, shallow outdoor space that is dry & has storage potential for logs & batteries.

Obviously with regular panels the idea of an expensive roof add on is something to "normalise" & tie in with the rest of the building & likely the rest of the immediate environ, this potentially changes with bifacial mounted in a domestic setting to do more or less the same thing but with just the bifacial panels as your roofing, a channel for cabling & then likely a white reflective flooring & walling paint job (with ours that would change the red brick & likely lessen the use of the space beneath for storage except for peak wood drying months via moveable cages)

Extra monies spent on bifacial panels would be saved on the standard "fit to match" of regular panels on a roof, no heavy roof tiles to put back, membrane ceiling material etc due to the exposure that bifacial necessitates.

So how much of a problem does this pose as new tech for councils to get their heads around, i've never been keen on re-roofing (low level) where pre-existing solar panels could do the job with little change, & less material.
wind & snow lading are obviously important from a safety perspective, but obviously these pass various regulatory concerns & requirements as standard, with a toughened glass sandwich they are weightier & stronger than the norm.

Has anyone spotted print material relating to domestic installs of bifacial solar regarding the hurdles needed to jump through council hoops yet? ..are we likely to face a planning impasse whilst councils wait for the word from slow evolving government, or is it already in hand (i doubt)

Yes I will ring planning (always a can of worms) but your thoughts a starter for 10 here is always good for crystal-balling

I anticipate a solid strip required along the frontage to increase panel protrusion to create better light bounce back from beneath where they would be envisaged for install rather than roof fit against the wall.

if regular panel uses 2.5mm of toughened glass as a standard within the solar frame then the addition of 2.5mm but frameless has interesting potential in a variety of uses, domestic garden pergolas play area roofing, car canopies, etc.

[img]https://www.solarmango.com/wp-content/u ... ucture.png [img]

There are a few you-tube videos now of potentially dodgy (we just don't know the finer details) of installs on liveable roofspace in india, which the edges over the tiling may be questionable as to peak efficiency but what they create is not to be sniffed at (imho)

Surely it is time to stop looking at them as specialist & start planning remodelling potential for the domestic environ.

[Joeboy]

A good idea, 10% extra cost for a potential 30% gain in generation. Seems good to me. Perfect to roof a sitooterry.
https://www.deegesolar.co.uk/bifacial_solar_panels/

[marshman]

Quote form the website linked to:

"CAN YOU USE BIFIACIAL PANELS ON A ROOF?
Bifacial solar panels work best when they lie around four metres from the ground. This is because the higher up the panel sits, the more light is able to get underneath them. For this reason bifacial solar panels are unlikely to suit a residential setting, but work well in solar farms, off-grid systems, or commercially."

Note the "they work best four metres from the ground"

Also note the "up to 30%" more efficient. Which will be in ideal conditions, unlikely to be achieved in a small scale domestic setting where the install cannot be idealised but will be dictated be existing structures etc.

I think all the other points - tougher, more durable, last longer, are mainly marketing b.s. Existing panels are not exactly fragile - ask Nowty or Joeboy!, as for longevity, my oldest panels are 16 years old and show absolutely no sign of degradation in either output or mechanical deterioration of the frame etc, and I live near the coast.

They have their place for sure but I don't think they are anything more than a higher efficiency panel. In my book the fact they are or can be frameless is irrelevant, they still have to be securely mounted, no frame will make that harder for a DIY install. I certainly don't see them as that practical for solar canopies over windows on the majority of domestic houses.

We need a solution for more PV output in the winter months, panels at a steeper angle, do that with these and the verticle space will be huge and they will be so close to the wall then most of the benefit of "reflected light" will be lost.

Sorry to sound negative but that is what my gut (and many, many years playing with RE) is saying.

[Mr Gus]

Marshman, I asked for discussion, don't fret.

The minimum is for a foot off the ground to start accruing extra energy, the ideal may be 4 metres? but variables of anything in-between can be squeezed out along with the usual best solar practises, so " 4 metres as the ideal" doesn't really bother me.

Frameless? ..new installation systems will simply grow out of it, compared to what we are used to (& there are a good few for framed panels currently)

Tough? ..yes, that's why a dual layer of toughened glass has more potential as a solid roofing structure to do stuff below, be it framed or frameless, (you know what architects will be messing up their sensible y-fronts over)

That projection strip I mentioned? ..to gain from solar so it isn't slap bang against a wall & increased losses as a result.
Increasing winter angle? ..build that onto a canopy system that a central bar can pivot tilt & use a membrane set into the wall for the flex required whilst remaining watertight (or watertight-ish)

My pergola legs are around 13 ft tall (they came that way, being metal not designed to be cut down) ..so garden applications may assume close to current "ideal"

[Mr Gus]

Nice examples of dappled cover from bifacial Joe

[Mart]

We need a solution for more PV output in the winter months, panels at a steeper angle, do that with these and the verticle space will be huge and they will be so close to the wall then most of the benefit of "reflected light" will be lost.

Sorry to sound negative but that is what my gut (and many, many years playing with RE) is saying.

Like Gus, I don't think any of what you said is negative, it's fun to ponder.

Talking of winter gen, and steeper panels, bifacial as vertical 'fences' might be good. The steep pitch optimises winter gen, but the shallow morning sun from the NE and evening sun from the NW would work well in the summer too.

Another possibility is to paint the wall, roof, fence etc behind the panels with white paint, but really white reflective paint, the types sold to reflect sunlight to minimise heat build up on properties.


Wasn't there an old running joke about mirrors in the semi-ancient past and a former forum life?

[Mr Gus]

Mart,

The price rise for my non high street shed fence panels via the local firm is now £60 a pop, second hand panels are looking more attractive options, as is banging in flexible solar panels on both the north side (open fields) & south on the garden side, if it gets any costlier they need to pay their own way

Supply & price rises over the past "back to normal" 12 months & HS2 scoffing forestry has meant I can't even gt 6 ft panels, it's 5 ft or nothing, I considered stumping up for another foot of concrete infill to raise the 5 ft to the top of the concrete posts, they are now £30 a pop, i'd need at least 20
so £600 for one side alone to literally "fill a gap"

[Oliver90owner]

Another possibility is to paint the wall, roof, fence etc behind the panels with white paint,

It perhaps needs to be the colour of the best wavelength for the panel, not necessarily white? If the panels work best on near IR, black might even be better.

[Mr Gus]

..do that & we may as well hand the neighbourhood over to the goths now Oliver