Plan to cut energy bills if you avoid peak-time use - might go National

[AE-NMidlands]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61949246

Households could get discounts on electricity bills if they use less energy at peak times.

National Grid hopes to roll out a scheme where people can save cash if they avoid high-power activities, such as cooking or charging electric cars, when demand is high.
The move follows a trial where Octopus Energy offered incentives for 100,000 customers who reduced consumption.

National Grid is asking all suppliers for feedback on its plans.
The company said the scheme was "not about energy rationing", despite fears over energy supplies after Russia's invasion of Ukraine affected oil and gas supplies to Europe.
A spokesman told the BBC the move was to "create flexibility" in its network and was part of longer-term plans to not add to the level of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere.
He added it "should not have a negative impact" on consumers as its aim was to balance the power grid at times of the year when heating and lighting causes overall electricity demand to be higher.

Last week, National Grid ESO hosted a webinar with energy suppliers to ask and understand how feasible its proposals would be if it rolled out the scheme country-wide, following its trial with Octopus Energy in February. It is understood a scheme could be established across suitable homes in Britain within months if energy firms agree.

The Times, which first reported the story, said it had seen estimates that households, which typically pay 28.34p for each kilowatt-hour of electricity they use, could potentially be paid as much as £6 for each kilowatt-hour that they avoid using at peak times. The way customers would redeem savings has not been established, but Octopus Energy said its consumers received credit on their energy accounts and also had a "self-refund option" where they could get cash transferred to their bank accounts.

Prices overall are continuing to rise at their fastest rate for 40 years, with UK inflation at 9.1%, the highest level since March 1982, biting into household budgets. Changes to the energy price cap meant typical energy bills rose by an unprecedented £700-a-year in April, and are due to rise by even more in October.

Energy supplier Octopus Energy, which trialled National Grid's proposals, said smart meter customers who reduced their consumption on evenings when demand is highest manged to save cash. It said consumers on average saved 23p per each two-hour trial window, but some participants saved up to £4.35.

etc...

[Moxi]

Presumably another carrot to get people to install smart meters as well ? Are there any take up figures for SMETS ?


Moxi

[nowty]

Presumably another carrot to get people to install smart meters as well ? Are there any take up figures for SMETS ?


Moxi

It was nearly 50% of domestic customers (with the big 6) at the end of march 2021, so it must be over half now.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... Report.pdf

Edit - seems to have hit 50% earlier this year.
https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/mon ... ls-1506521

[Moxi]

So vastly under the original target date set by HMG and even "tight" for the new delivery date, I still harbour a distrust of what they information will be used for later on along the line.

Just imagine if the prospect of paying consumers to turn off was turned on its head and the Grid and the big six said they would instead charge a premium for people wanting to use electricity at peak hours ? With everyone on a smart meter they could do that in a heartbeat.

Moxi

[cojmh]

I am afraid this is exactly where it will go ..... probably the aim from the outset.

Still waiting to work out what they are going to do with VED now that they will be loosing a lot of that due to EVs .... charging by mile will be interesting.

[Stinsy]

I am afraid this is exactly where it will go ..... probably the aim from the outset.

Still waiting to work out what they are going to do with VED now that they will be loosing a lot of that due to EVs .... charging by mile will be interesting.

VED is easy: they'll just start sneaking it up. And have tiers so that only the most efficient BEVs get the low rates. Remember when the "cleanest" diesels were £0? They soon stopped that. PHEVs were also £0 for a time, but now many are £450 a year. However VED raises only £7.2bn a year. Peanuts!

It is Road Fuel Duty that is the big problem! It is a fantastic tax from the exchequer's point of view because demand is inelastic (people buy the same amount no-matter the price) it also is difficult to argue against due to the "sin". This raises £26.2bn a year not counting the VAT you pay on the fuel AND THE FUEL DUTY!

Road Fuel Duty is a MUCH bigger problem to solve. Forcing us all to pay for and install trackers that send you a bill every month for the number of miles driven would be very unpopular. But they have to find another big source of revenue otherwise the exchequer is in big trouble.

[Tinbum]

I'm continuously being bombarded and bullied into getting a smart meter by EonNext by text and letter. Even threatening to take me off my tariff if I don't get one. I'd really like them to try that, as I'm sure I'd win.
I do have a smart meter but I also have a dumb one that I intend to keep dumb.

[AE-NMidlands]

I'm continuously being bombarded and bullied into getting a smart meter by EonNext by text and letter. Even threatening to take me off my tariff if I don't get one. I'd really like them to try that, as I'm sure I'd win.
I do have a smart meter but I also have a dumb one that I intend to keep dumb.

Interesting. Octopus ask me occasionally (yearly?) but seem happy with me declining their offer.
If I received anything like a threat I would be straight onto their CEO and OfGem. Issuing threats is a criminal offence in its own right.
A

[Mr Gus]

If we are already paying 20% VAT for commercial charging then how does VED balance out when the majority are driving EV's & what is the remaining shortfall ?

Also simplest thing to do (surely)!? when that happens is stick a standard charge back on which was actually abolished in 1947 ..because it will literally be back to "road tax"

It's not like the govt are going to let it slip from their greasy fingers eh!?

The vat on commercial charging will stay "just because"

The other question is bearing in mind data packets now that EV chargers are technically smart, the govt will want access to that data stream (initially stated as being for some other purpose) then cover it as home charging, the cheap hours will get smaller & smaller, those commando cables better be bought now & connections hidden behind big old plant pots to buck the system.

I cannot see cars fitted with needlessly expensive mileage recorder boxes supplied by govt (unless it's a contract to a "mate) ..likely the assumption that everyone is online may mean we all have to submit mileage recordings every month which are then tallied whenever a vehicle is in a garage for work /mot type thing.

Cannot see it being popular with Kettle lady types (who will be spitting feathers obviously) for me at least the I'll get my coat smilie" is sorely missed!

Tyre tax maybe? (the other much touted form of mobility pollution)

[cojmh]

Road Fuel Duty is a MUCH bigger problem to solve. Forcing us all to pay for and install trackers that send you a bill every month for the number of miles driven would be very unpopular. But they have to find another big source of revenue otherwise the exchequer is in big trouble.

I am not entirely sure why they don't just use the MOT (which logs the miles) when it is goes through.

I realise that this only affects vehicles over 3 years old - but they could either make it so you had to have it checked at a garage for the first 3 years (not necessarily an MOT - just a check) or introduce a grace period or just catch it when the vehicle is sold or MOT'd for the first time.

When people sell vehicles and fill in the V5 an optional part (which could be made mandatory) is the vehicle mileage. Meaning that the mileage between MOT and sale would also be logged and charged correctly.

I realise that there would be some fraud - but that is always the case with any system and this above approach would only require minor changes to systems that are already in place and not require retro fit equipment or put any expensive new systems in place.

May be a bit harder to collect the money from people and it would be annually instead - but it could be done.

I hasten to add that I am not a big of charging per mile ..... just pondering really