Timeshifting power use mainstream

[Oldgreybeard]

Just pulled the latest issue of DUKES, the government energy statistics publication. As I thought, gas accounts for less than half of our generation capacity, in fact it's around 40% of the total, as shown in these data:

Electricity by fuel.jpg (41.38 KiB) Viewed 834 times

Renewable generation is roughly the same size as gas generation, and that hasn't increased in production cost at all. Same goes for nuclear, and, to a lesser extent, for coal (coal prices have risen a bit). Given that around 50% of our electricity generation has seen no increase in running cost, how come those generators are now being paid massively more for the electricity they produce?

Where does all this extra money they are paid go, and why are consumers being forced to pay them more when their costs have not changed?

[nowty]

UK launches biggest electricity market reform in a generation
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-l ... generation

"Under the current system, gas prices often end up setting the wholesale electricity price, because it is often the last source of supply to meet demand."

Consultation currently open if anyone is interested,
https://www.gov.uk/government/consultat ... rangements

[Oldgreybeard]

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-l ... generation

"Under the current system, gas prices often end up setting the wholesale electricity price, because it is often the last source of supply to meet demand."

Consultation currently open if anyone is interested,
https://www.gov.uk/government/consultat ... rangements

Thanks for that, it explains a lot!

The quick fix would seem to be to have some means to claw back excess profits from all the non-gas generators, as they are essentially raking in money for nothing, from people that can ill afford to pay it. Clearly the system is very badly broken if the price of gas generation sets the market rate, given that it is almost entirely the cost increases of gas that have driven all the electricity price rises we've seen.

My guess is that it really all comes down to how many Tories are raking cash in from their interests in the energy sector. My guess is that it's probably a lot, not to mention all the cash donated from the FF companies to their party. . .

[Fintray]

Another explanation from Good Energy:
https://www.goodenergy.co.uk/why-does-t ... enewables/

[Moxi]

Its also the effect of allowing the free market to set the price, works well in times of surplus generation where the producers are all undercutting each other to gain business BUT when the market tightens they have the whip hand and we all get to sing till our pips squeak! Cant have it both ways, we have had decades of very cheap power while the nationally built power stations have been run in to the ground and replaced by gas turbines.

Its ironic that the government of the day is the same colour as the ones that set us off on this course forty years ago, I will enjoy watching them desperately trying to twist market forces and convince the voters that it wasn't their fault.

Some may benefit from a small petrol geni for the winter as oil prices are set to fall with China reducing their demand and the impending Iran nuclear deal ? for myself I will avoid the fossil fuel route and try and manage with my current set up aided by the WBS (sorry OGB i know you have a view on this) along side some judicious self imposed load shedding of my own.

No doubt as will other things the price fall in the second half of the year will be as glacial as the rise now is meteoric but that is the way of things and may help the average family cut their overall power demands to the betterment of the planet? we can but hope.

Moxi

[Oldgreybeard]

Another explanation from Good Energy:
https://www.goodenergy.co.uk/why-does-t ... enewables/

Interestingly, they mention that 38% of our generation is from gas, so my guess of 40% from that DUKES chart was reasonably accurate!

[Oldgreybeard]

Its also the effect of allowing the free market to set the price, works well in times of surplus generation where the producers are all undercutting each other to gain business BUT when the market tightens they have the whip hand and we all get to sing till our pips squeak! Cant have it both ways, we have had decades of very cheap power while the nationally built power stations have been run in to the ground and replaced by gas turbines.

I've long held the view that it is simply wrong to put essentials for life in the hands of the private sector, especially when much of that sector is owned by companies outside the UK. We have seen how very easy it is for countries to be held to ransom when they are reliant on interests outside their borders to keep them running, and although the UK is, thankfully, not in anything like as bad shape as Germany, Italy and the Netherlands in that respect, we are very dependent on gas and electricity imports.

Its ironic that the government of the day is the same colour as the ones that set us off on this course forty years ago, I will enjoy watching them desperately trying to twist market forces and convince the voters that it wasn't their fault.

We saw how quickly massive profits were made with the sell off of all our nationalised industries under Thatcher - the get rich quick brigade very rapidly moved in and there was an outcry at the time that everything had been sold off too cheaply. I don't believe that the taxpayer got value for money at the time, and I definitely don't believe that we have had value for money since, given the way the market is skewed.

Some may benefit from a small petrol geni for the winter as oil prices are set to fall with China reducing their demand and the impending Iran nuclear deal ? for myself I will avoid the fossil fuel route and try and manage with my current set up aided by the WBS (sorry OGB i know you have a view on this) along side some judicious self imposed load shedding of my own.

No doubt as will other things the price fall in the second half of the year will be as glacial as the rise now is meteoric but that is the way of things and may help the average family cut their overall power demands to the betterment of the planet? we can but hope.

Moxi

Had similar thought about getting a small generator. The oil price has dropped a lot over the past few months, from a high of around $125/barrel in March to about $87/barrel now. All the indications seem to suggest the lowering of oil price is a trend, so it may well drop further. A small suitcase generator burns around 0.27 litres per kWh, so to break even (in fuel cost only) with electricity at 50p/kWh petrol needs to cost about £1.85/litre. Anything under that makes running a generator cheaper. The petrol price at our nearest garage is currently £1.72/litre, so roughly equivalent to running a small generator if the peak rate electricity price is around 46p/kWh.