Considering taking a domestic electrician course..

[Caesium]

Well, I'm not sure how much interest this topic will get given the complete lack of activity on this sub-board, but hey lets give it a go This was the best place I could see for it, but please feel free to move..

So as per topic I'm considering taking a course to learn a bit more about electrics. Probably a domestic electrician course type thing, I see from various online places you can get this done and dusted within a month if you cram it in, for less than two grand (maybe plus some cost of books). So this looks like it involves a Part P course, 18th Edition Wiring regs, Inspection C&G, then maybe tag on an EV installation course as well as that has special earthing knowledge I guess.

The main motivator would be to allow myself to legally work on my house electrics on notifiable work. For instance I'd quite like to install an EV charging point myself - I had a quote for a grand to get this done and I can buy the parts including 6mm SWA for a quarter of that. And running new circuits like out to a cabin in the garden and suchlike. A few projects like this and the course is paid for.

It's probably unlikely I'd try and make a career out of it. I do enjoy messing with electrics, to put it bluntly, and obviously have more than a passing interest in renewables and self-sustainability. I feel like I know enough not to be too dangerous (I probably actually don't in reality) but lets be honest, I currently do work that I'm not legally allowed to do, at the risk of burning my house down and not getting an insurance payout because of it. I'll also have to undo anything when I come to selling my house so I can properly say everything is certified (ie as it was when a real sparky last touched it).

Just wondering if anyone has any experiences to share on this, has anyone here done it for similar reasons? Anyone get qualified like this then just use their knowledge to work safely on their own property? If I did want to make some money out of it afterwards, would that be a possibility with just this basic qualification?

[Oldgreybeard]

There is more to it than just doing the domestic installer course when it comes to being able to do work that falls under the remit of Part P. I looked at doing this some years ago, so I could DIY the wiring when I built this house. What I found was that there is no way to get membership of one of the Part P companies unless you are both trading as an electrician and have passed all the company assessments, which include audits of work done for customers.

In theory you are supposed to be able to get your chosen Building Control company to be able to sign things off against all parts of the Building Regs, including Part P, but in practice the companies that run the Part P system will not accredit non-trading electricians, so there is no easy way for Building Control companies to get suitably qualified and certificated to sign off electrical work.

I ended up giving up on DIY'ing the electrics and paid someone an arm and a leg to do work that I was perfectly capable of doing, as I couldn't find any way around the Part P problem. The only thing I did learn from the process is that there is a "statute of limitations" when it comes to electrical work. If no one reports you for non-compliance then after two years you're immune from prosecution.

[spread-tee]

It's unlikely to be worth your while what with testing gear, keeping it calibrated, your competencies up to date, notwithstanding the points OGB makes.
There are SOME sparkies who may work alongside you so you could do a lot of the install which they then inspect, test and certify which in theory would keep costs down and allow you to do a lot of your DIY.

Having said that we wont touch DIY with a bargepole, on a few occasions we agreed with DIYers to oversee some work and discussed a layout and schedule and returned to an absolute nightmare of dodgy workmanship, stuff covered up so we couldn't inspect ETC ETC..........which leads to a very dificult conversation. I know a lot of DIYers are diligent and knowledgeable and also have a vested interest in doing the job right, but a lot aren't and worse a lot of them don't know what they don't know, and TBH we are too busy to waste time like that.

Speak to a few local sparkies and suss them out you never know?

Desp

[Stinsy]

I did "the course" 7-years ago.

I was doing up run-down ex council houses and renting them out. I wanted to do all the electrical work and signing off myself. However to be frank it was a waste of time and money.

It took 8 weeks. I was the only one on the course who actually understood electricity, including the instructor! On the last day I asked the instructor what direction the electrons flowed in a DC circuit and how fast they went. He didn't know they flow from -ve to +ve and he thought they traveled at the speed of light. The other guys were pretty rubbish in the classroom and on the tools. They struggled with basic arithmetic and didn't seem comfortable with a pair of pliers or a hacksaw in their hands.

Then at the end of it I wasn't an "electrician" I was a "domestic installer". And I had to pay hundreds of pounds a year to an "accreditation body" to do any notifiable work, which didn't fit my model of doing up a house every year or two. And even then I couldn't do my own EICRs...

The worst part of it all is that I can tell instantly when an "apprentice trained fully-qualified electrician" hasn't got a clue what they're doing, or does sloppy work.

[chris_n]

I did "the course" 7-years ago.

I was doing up run-down ex council houses and renting them out. I wanted to do all the electrical work and signing off myself. However to be frank it was a waste of time and money.

It took 8 weeks. I was the only one on the course who actually understood electricity, including the instructor! On the last day I asked the instructor what direction the electrons flowed in a DC circuit and how fast they went. He didn't know they flow from -ve to +ve and he thought they traveled at the speed of light. The other guys were pretty rubbish in the classroom and on the tools. They struggled with basic arithmetic and didn't seem comfortable with a pair of pliers or a hacksaw in their hands.

Then at the end of it I wasn't an "electrician" I was a "domestic installer". And I had to pay hundreds of pounds a year to an "accreditation body" to do any notifiable work, which didn't fit my model of doing up a house every year or two. And even then I couldn't do my own EICRs...

The worst part of it all is that I can tell instantly when an "apprentice trained fully-qualified electrician" hasn't got a clue what they're doing, or does sloppy work.

Although not an Electrician I had to do a 17th edition course, my experience was very similar. The worst on the course were a group of 3 or 4 NHS sparkies, they had no idea at all!

[Oldgreybeard]

Matches my experience, Stinsy. Finding any electrician that can do a competent, safe and tidy job isn't at all easy. Our consumer unit here is a bloody awful mess, wires stuffed in any old how with no consideration given to neatness or the poor sod that has to come along later and do any testing. I've been tempted to replace it myself and tidy all the wiring up, may well do it, even though it's an offence, TBH. I think the powers that be would have a very, very hard time trying to bring a successful prosecution for such a thing, especially as I'd have photos showing how bloody awful the original installation was.

Having heard arcing from a loose terminal in the cooker switch not long after we moved in I decided the whole installation needed to be checked over, despite being brand new. Every power outlet and light fitting in this house has now been taken off, the wiring checked and all the terminals tightened up, glad I did this as there were two sets of sockets where the wires just fell out of the terminals as I pulled them away from the wall.

[Dragon Midas]

Hi All,
My first first post on the New Forum,
I have had the miss-fortune to employ 3 accredited part P electrification's in the past six years.
First one a full rewire, booted out after finding wires joined together with twisted wires and covered in tape, non fire rated down-lighters fitted and fitting a previous edition consumer unit just because I would not know being joe public and theft..

Second one consumer unit change failed to notify, so in theory I am liable for a fine as notifiable not notified... done by a part P ****.

Third occasion moving house to Scotland I am working away, brand new central heating put in part of contract with installer part P person connects wires...
Walks in to connect boiler (supplied by installer) says to wife I want an extra £1000 to wire boiler up...
This was in winter the outside temperature plunged to -18.
So part P person was happy to try and extort £1000 while my wife and 6 year old son had no heating or hot water...
Apparently we employ part P because they put in safe installations but are happy for people to freeze to death for a quick buck, is that not a safety issue...

So to sum up part P is a joke half don't know the regs and produce dangerous work, theft and extortion are not unknown which makes the odd good one which I think I have found to do some work a very unusual person.

cheers R

[spread-tee]

As Stinsy and OGB say a part P course isn't designed to make a sparky out of a layperson, that takes an apprenticeship or working alongside a proper spark and classroom based learning. Part P is more designed for people like me a long time gas engineer who may do a bit of fault diagnoses and installations on boilers and heating controls or similar type work with strictly limited and defined small scale .

Desp

[Eric12]

Part P is not a qualification, its a document of building regulation in England covering electrical safety in dwellings. Completing a Part P "exam" will not make you qualified, and not enable you to notify any notifiable electrical work in dwellings. Similarly with the 18th edition (electrical regulations), this qualification will prove only that you can read the IEE regs book, and again wont enable you to notify works.

It used to be the case that you could do a 10 week course and become a "domestic installer", this idea was introduced to (apparently) allow kitchen fitters/gas engineers and the like to add circuits/equipment ect, test it, and notify. However there was mass resistance to this idea from time served sparky's and following more than a few dangerous incidents this route to becoming registered to sign off and notify electrical works was scrapped in September 21 (and for good reason I will add). To sign off electrical work in a dwelling you would now need to do at least 2 years at college, as well as a evidence based portfolio (an improvement to the 10 week become an electrician courses, but still not perfect). I would suggest to not waste any money on these fast track courses which are still advertising btw !

[Oldgreybeard]

The domestic installer option is still there, the course takes anything from four to eight weeks. Even featured recently in one of the soaps, with a character doing the course in prison in six weeks and coming out as an "electrician". I always thought these short courses were just to allow plumbers to be able to sign off the limited electrical work when installing heating systems and also allow people like kitchen fitters to wire up cookers etc. I didn't think they were ever intended to allow more complex work to be done but I have a very strong feeling that domestic installers are doing much more demanding work than was ever intended when these short courses were introduced.