Energy Tariffs

[Joeboy]

And on the discount to avoid peak rate, which went a bit quiet looks set to fail.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62876194

The Times first reported that both Octopus Energy and E.On had warned that the proposed payment to customers of 52p for each kilowatt-hour of electricity saved during peak times was too low, and would not encourage people to sign up.

"We need that incentive that changes the behaviour. The higher the payments to customers, the greater chance of success."

It is understood one supplier suggested the savings offered to customers avoiding peak-time use should be between £1 to £2 per kWh.

E.On said it believed the current prices being discussed by National Grid ESO "aren't going to be enough to persuade people to take part".

"This activity is designed to be a last resort measure at times of stress on the grid and we feel the reward to customers should match recent prices and give people a real reason to take part," the company said.

Read that, rather . The machine is just standing there through the night so to speak Why not use it? Flipping it on its head, if I saw a £100 note on the street, of course I'd pick it up. So what's the difference here, is it really just effort or lack of?

[Bugtownboy]

Surely a very slight change in behaviour to save or move 1 kWh of useage a day is worth it ? Even at this level, it’s the best part of £200 a year - £300 if you actually reduce usage.

How many PV panels is that

[Oldgreybeard]

Given that off-peak rates have been increased by a massively greater margin than the peak rates with most suppliers, and given that off-peak rates should be set to encourage the use of electricity during that period (which means not using electricity at peak rates), then right now there isn't much, if any, incentive to change behaviour. The fact that off peak electricity is now only about 30% cheaper than peak rate, whereas just a few months ago off=peak rates were around 60% cheaper, shows that there is no real desire by suppliers to change behaviours, if anything they are doing the opposite.

[Joeboy]

Given that off-peak rates have been increased by a massively greater margin than the peak rates with most suppliers, and given that off-peak rates should be set to encourage the use of electricity during that period (which means not using electricity at peak rates), then right now there isn't much, if any, incentive to change behaviour. The fact that off peak electricity is now only about 30% cheaper than peak rate, whereas just a few months ago off=peak rates were around 60% cheaper, shows that there is no real desire by suppliers to change behaviours, if anything they are doing the opposite.

30% is not small? 1.5%, now THAT is small. Looking at this from the end user POV though. A 30% discount to change behavior a little (really just pushing buttons) reads like a good deal to me?

[Oldgreybeard]

Given that off-peak rates have been increased by a massively greater margin than the peak rates with most suppliers, and given that off-peak rates should be set to encourage the use of electricity during that period (which means not using electricity at peak rates), then right now there isn't much, if any, incentive to change behaviour. The fact that off peak electricity is now only about 30% cheaper than peak rate, whereas just a few months ago off=peak rates were around 60% cheaper, shows that there is no real desire by suppliers to change behaviours, if anything they are doing the opposite.

30% is not small? 1.5%, now THAT is small. Looking at this from the end user POV though.

It's the way the ratio has changed that now makes off-peak look far less of a good deal than it was last winter. Our standard variable tariff is pretty typical, although the off-peak hasn't risen by as much as some. Last winter the rates were 7.56p/kWh off-peak, 27.773p/kWh peak. so there was a BIG incentive to use off-peak, with it being only 27% the cost of peak rate. Now those standard variable rates are 17.831p/kWh off-peak and 33.26p/kWh peak, so off-peak is now far less attractive, at 54% of the cost of peak rate.

As it takes effort for people to re-organise things so that they switch consumption to off-peak periods, the incentive needs to be large enough to make people really try to do it. If doing the washing only costs 10p more during the day than it does during the night then a lot of people are just going to not bother. Not those of us here, we're self-selecting to be focussed on saving energy and reducing harmful emissions, but that's not the case for the vast majority of people. Most people only change behaviours when there is a big enough incentive to do so.

[Joeboy]

Given that off-peak rates have been increased by a massively greater margin than the peak rates with most suppliers, and given that off-peak rates should be set to encourage the use of electricity during that period (which means not using electricity at peak rates), then right now there isn't much, if any, incentive to change behaviour. The fact that off peak electricity is now only about 30% cheaper than peak rate, whereas just a few months ago off=peak rates were around 60% cheaper, shows that there is no real desire by suppliers to change behaviours, if anything they are doing the opposite.

30% is not small? 1.5%, now THAT is small. Looking at this from the end user POV though.

It's the way the ratio has changed that now makes off-peak look far less of a good deal than it was last winter. Our standard variable tariff is pretty typical, although the off-peak hasn't risen by as much as some. Last winter the rates were 7.56p/kWh off-peak, 27.773p/kWh peak. so there was a BIG incentive to use off-peak, with it being only 27% the cost of peak rate. Now those standard variable rates are 17.831p/kWh off-peak and 33.26p/kWh peak, so off-peak is now far less attractive, at 54% of the cost of peak rate.

As it takes effort for people to re-organise things so that they switch consumption to off-peak periods, the incentive needs to be large enough to make people really try to do it. If doing to washing only costs 10p more during the day than it does during the night then a lot of people are just going to not bother. Not those of us here, we're self-selecting to be focussed on saving energy and reducing harmful emissions, but that's not the case for the vast majority of people. Most people only change behaviours when there is a big enough incentive to do so.

Fully understood and an aspect of humanity I try very hard not to ponder on overlong..

Not wishing to stop the conversation but I tend to avoid thinking overlymuch about humanity as a herd or indeed individual behavior and intelligence as it sends my mind down dark paths, best avoided. A lot of nightshift 03.30hrs pondering on the black sea.

[Beau]

Any idea if the like of Ecotricity and Good energy will be covered this time? They were not covered by the previous cap but don't know if this is different

[nowty]

Any idea if the like of Ecotricity and Good energy will be covered this time? They were not covered by the previous cap but don't know if this is different

All energy suppliers should have had it in the past (standard variable rate based on OFGEM's price cap) but in some cases it has either been very difficult or impossible to move onto the standard variable rate. Sometimes you only got on there if you were moved over from a failed supplier or you did not sign up to a new tariff at end of contract time.

I believe this time, it will either be mandatory to let you move over free, OR you get the extra discount to your existing fixed tariff, but maybe ONLY if its higher. This is what we might find out later today. I think there is a general principle being applied to the energy suppliers, but it may be up to the individual suppliers as to how they apply them.

[Beau]

Any idea if the like of Ecotricity and Good energy will be covered this time? They were not covered by the previous cap but don't know if this is different

All energy suppliers should have had it in the past (standard variable rate based on OFGEM's price cap) but in some cases it has either been very difficult or impossible to move onto the standard variable rate.

Not sure that's the case. This was for previous cap

"However, three green suppliers - Good Energy, Green Energy UK and Ecotricity - have a permanent exemption from the price cap, because they contribute to the growth of renewable energy.

This means their tariffs can be higher than the price cap."

https://www.idealhome.co.uk/property-ad ... ide-300899

[Oldgreybeard]

All a part of this government's efforts to try and penalise anyone looking to reduce their environmental impact. There seems little doubt that Truss is an ally of the fossil fuel industry and that they most probably have her in their pocket.