DIY battery storage commissioning

[Kenny000666]

Hi guys

So I have the Solis Rai 5G inverter (batteries not arrived yet, unfortunately no ETA). My installation plan is to put a garage CU near the inverter, and wire it up the the main board or main meter. Space wise I could only get a 3 way + an RCD.

My problem is I’m struggling to find a local electrician. Whilst they are happy to do the garage CU as a standard job, as soon as they see they need to sign off the Battery and Inverter they decline the job. I’ve had a few guys who say they can do the job, then as soon as ask if a cert can be supplied they be like “I can’t provide a cert” (surely it’s not legal to do electrical work if they not registered )

I’m pretty confident I can do the tests asked for in the G99 commissioning form, may need to confirm a few settings. But does anyone know if I can get an electrician to certify the wiring of the inverter and garage CU. Then I DIY commission the G99 as the generator? Has anyone tried filling out the form with installer as N/A? I was considering being cheeky and fill out the installer with the electrician once they have done the standard job, but figured that’s a bit unprofessional

If others have done this, I guess I could get an electrician in to get the wiring done first, then I can play round with the inverter, the. Plug the battery in and commission later once it arrives.

Thoughts anyone?

[sharpener]

The DNO aren't really interested in the electrical safety for you or whether it meets part P. Their concern is whether it will exceed the export limit for the locality and whether it will kill their employees (there is a recent thread here on this).

Presumably you have already made an application and know what the export limit is going to be.

You could get an electrician to put in the garage CU and sign off their work, then do a DIY install of the inverter. Alternatively you could DIY the whole issue and get the LA Building Control to inspect it when it is done for peace of mind, I have done that successively for a whole-house rewire, an extension and a new garage. At least then you have their certificate when it comes to sell the house, and a good story to tell your insurers.

The DNO may well accept you declaring yourself as all three, site owner, Generator and Installer, I haven't had any comeback after doing just this. Probably better than leaving the boxes blank or n/a.

[ducabi]

Alternatively you could DIY the whole issue and get the LA Building Control to inspect it when it is done for peace of mind, I have done that successively for a whole-house rewire, an extension and a new garage. At least then you have their certificate when it comes to sell the house, and a good story to tell your insurers.

The DNO may well accept you declaring yourself as all three, site owner, Generator and Installer, I haven't had any comeback after doing just this. Probably better than leaving the boxes blank or n/a.

Is it legal to do things like house rewire or inverter installation without being qualified electrician?

[Kenny000666]

The DNO may well accept you declaring yourself as all three, site owner, Generator and Installer, I haven't had any comeback after doing just this. Probably better than leaving the boxes blank or n/a.

Nice, this may sound like the plan. I’ve got a couple of electricians coming by, so may see how they feel. But if not, I’ll probably just get the consumer unit done and commission myself.

Forgot to mention, that I have already got an approval for the fast track battery storage which I believe is G99. As I have an existing PV, they gave me an extra 3kw export limit for the battery. So I can now export 6.68kw max. Not that I will be exporting from the battery anyway as I am on the 50% FIT pv export scheme, and taking a smart export tariff means I have to forfeit it.

[Oldgreybeard]

Alternatively you could DIY the whole issue and get the LA Building Control to inspect it when it is done for peace of mind, I have done that successively for a whole-house rewire, an extension and a new garage. At least then you have their certificate when it comes to sell the house, and a good story to tell your insurers.

The DNO may well accept you declaring yourself as all three, site owner, Generator and Installer, I haven't had any comeback after doing just this. Probably better than leaving the boxes blank or n/a.

Is it legal to do things like house rewire or inverter installation without being qualified electrician?

Yes, as there is no legal definition as to what a "qualified" person is. All the law refers to is competence, as in a "competent person". I've had to jump through hoops because of this, because I trained as an electrician as a part time job, back in the 1970's. I sat the City and Guilds exams and worked with an elderly electrician who taught me a great deal, but I was never an apprentice. Back then this didn't matter, as long as you had your C&G chits and had your experience and on the job training signed off by a competent person you were deemed qualified.

Move forward a few decades, to the time I wanted to build us a house, and I dusted off my old C&G chits, and then enrolled in a short (4 week) course at the local college that was designed as a "return to work" training course for those that had been out of the trade for some time. As I had just retired from work I got the course at a hefty discount, most expensive bit was buying the books. The wiring regulations alone cost around £80 IIRC, outrageous really, given that everyone needs a copy.

Problem I then ran into was that none of our local building control bodies had anyone qualified to sign off work done by others. At the time the companies that provide accreditation for part P work (NICEIC, NAPIT, STROMA, etc) were NOT accrediting inspect and test (i.e essentially C&G 2391) for new installations undertaken by non-members. All a bit of a closed shop. The local building control bodies were not able to just add the inspection and test to all the other building control inspection and approval work they were doing, and apologised profusely but explained they were in a Catch 22 situation with the accreditation companies that didn't want anyone else signing off work against Part P.

The fix for me was surprisingly easy. I still had my ID card, dating back from 1979 when I was working part time as an electrician, and one of the part P accreditation companies was offering a scheme for "retired electricians", whereby they could join, for a reduced subscription, as long as they only did a handful of Part P jobs a year (off the top of my head I think it was around 5 or 6 a year). I used that scheme initially, and signed off the first tranche of work myself, and lodged the IEC using my own accreditation number, then that scheme was withdrawn, so I wasn't able to do any more Part P work.

I believe that since then the building control bodies have managed to twist the collective arms of all the Part P accreditation companies, so that they will now accredit third party inspection and test. Not cheap, though, I think the fee is fixed and somewhere around £450, which is a hell of a lot for a pretty simple job, where the inspect and test part may only take half an hour or so.

[Stinsy]

Alternatively you could DIY the whole issue and get the LA Building Control to inspect it when it is done for peace of mind, I have done that successively for a whole-house rewire, an extension and a new garage. At least then you have their certificate when it comes to sell the house, and a good story to tell your insurers.

The DNO may well accept you declaring yourself as all three, site owner, Generator and Installer, I haven't had any comeback after doing just this. Probably better than leaving the boxes blank or n/a.

Is it legal to do things like house rewire or inverter installation without being qualified electrician?

Yes, as there is no legal definition as to what a "qualified" person is. All the law refers to is competence, as in a "competent person". I've had to jump through hoops because of this, because I trained as an electrician as a part time job, back in the 1970's. I sat the City and Guilds exams and worked with an elderly electrician who taught me a great deal, but I was never an apprentice. Back then this didn't matter, as long as you had your C&G chits and had your experience and on the job training signed off by a competent person you were deemed qualified.

Move forward a few decades, to the time I wanted to build us a house, and I dusted off my old C&G chits, and then enrolled in a short (4 week) course at the local college that was designed as a "return to work" training course for those that had been out of the trade for some time. As I had just retired from work I got the course at a hefty discount, most expensive bit was buying the books. The wiring regulations alone cost around £80 IIRC, outrageous really, given that everyone needs a copy.

Problem I then ran into was that none of our local building control bodies had anyone qualified to sign off work done by others. At the time the companies that provide accreditation for part P work (NICEIC, NAPIT, STROMA, etc) were NOT accrediting inspect and test (i.e essentially C&G 2391) for new installations undertaken by non-members. All a bit of a closed shop. The local building control bodies were not able to just add the inspection and test to all the other building control inspection and approval work they were doing, and apologised profusely but explained they were in a Catch 22 situation with the accreditation companies that didn't want anyone else signing off work against Part P.

The fix for me was surprisingly easy. I still had my ID card, dating back from 1979 when I was working part time as an electrician, and one of the part P accreditation companies was offering a scheme for "retired electricians", whereby they could join, for a reduced subscription, as long as they only did a handful of Part P jobs a year (off the top of my head I think it was around 5 or 6 a year). I used that scheme initially, and signed off the first tranche of work myself, and lodged the IEC using my own accreditation number, then that scheme was withdrawn, so I wasn't able to do any more Part P work.

I believe that since then the building control bodies have managed to twist the collective arms of all the Part P accreditation companies, so that they will now accredit third party inspection and test. Not cheap, though, I think the fee is fixed and somewhere around £450, which is a hell of a lot for a pretty simple job, where the inspect and test part may only take half an hour or so.

Let us not forget that when "electricians" who have paid their £450 a year do terrible quality work leading to dangerous situations, thise "accreditation schemes" literally never remove the accreditation.

[sharpener]

Thanks OGB for the clarification. IIRC it is illegal to do work for others for money.

Otherwise my understanding is much the same, but fortunately in the areas where I have "practised" (Cambridge and Devon) the Building Control departments do offer this service. Teignmouth charge £280 for a whole-house rewire and £140 for anything else, which I think pretty reasonable; I am currently waiting for new panels to be installed before I get my ESS inspected by them. It hasn't been at all clear in my many unsuccessful dealing with PV installers whether it is a help or a hindrance to be a Chartered Engineer, but fortunately the DNO seems to think it acceptable as a qualification.

I agree about the cost of books, happily I have been able to borrow the IET Code of Practice for EESS from their library for extended periods as I am a member, AFAIR it is over £50 to purchase. More or less essential reading.

[Oldgreybeard]

Let us not forget that when "electricians" who have paid their £450 a year do terrible quality work leading to dangerous situations, thise "accreditation schemes" literally never remove the accreditation.

Sadly this is very, very true, and as you say, the accreditation companies really don't give a damn as long as they can carry on taking cash from members. Not wanting to blow my own trumpet, but I've helped out friends that have had dodgy electrical work done a few times, and I honestly don't know how those supposed "qualified electricians" sleep at night, the state of some of the work they've done.

The thing that very much annoys me, more than anything else, is that it's invariably older people that get caught by the shysters. I was asked by a friend to go and take a look at an elderly gentleman's home in a neighbouring village a few years ago, as he was having trouble with things tripping out in his consumer unit. He'd paid a small fortune to a big local electrical company to have the house rewired, as a rewire was recommended by his surveyor when he bought the house (not long after his wife had passed). Just about everything that could be done badly, was done badly. I spent days over there trying to put thing right, bit by bit, then, after I'd sorted it as best I could I got a reputable local electrician in to do a periodic inspection so he had a record that all was reasonably safe.

The old boy is no longer with us, but I will admit to often worrying if there were things in that installation that I'd not seen and sorted. It really was one of the very worst jobs I've ever seen, and not cheap, either. They had charged him (this was in 2015) over £4,000 to rewire a single bedroom bungalow in a "retirement village".

[Oldgreybeard]

Thanks OGB for the clarification. IIRC it is illegal to do work for others for money.

Otherwise my understanding is much the same, but fortunately in the areas where I have "practised" (Cambridge and Devon) the Building Control departments do offer this service. Teignmouth charge £280 for a whole-house rewire and £140 for anything else, which I think pretty reasonable; I am currently waiting for new panels to be installed before I get my ESS inspected by them. It hasn't been at all clear in my many unsuccessful dealing with PV installers whether it is a help or a hindrance to be a Chartered Engineer, but fortunately the DNO seems to think it acceptable as a qualification.

I agree about the cost of books, happily I have been able to borrow the IET Code of Practice for EESS from their library for extended periods as I am a member, AFAIR it is over £50 to purchase. More or less essential reading.

Depends. I could perfectly legally come around to your house and replace outlets, light fittings, in fact anything that doesn't require part P approval, charge you top dollar for the work and I would not be breaking any laws. There is only one law covering some electrical work, and that is Part P, and that doesn't cover the majority of electrical work, so no laws are broken by anyone doing non-Part P work and charging for it, even if they have zero knowledge of electrical work.

Bizarre, but true, as unlike gas work electrical work doesn't have to meet any legal requirements, apart from the stuff that falls within Part P of the building regs.

[sharpener]

Forgot to mention, that I have already got an approval for the fast track battery storage which I believe is G99. As I have an existing PV, they gave me an extra 3kw export limit for the battery. So I can now export 6.68kw max. Not that I will be exporting from the battery anyway as I am on the 50% FIT pv export scheme, and taking a smart export tariff means I have to forfeit it.

Yes, by the time you have jumped through the SEG hoops (which require an MCS certificate - which by definition I have not got) it is not worth it if you are on the 50% deemed export already.

Lucky you for the extra allowance and the fast track, which DNO is that, would love to know?

WPD were very risk averse and insisted on a full long-form G99 application, with my 5 kVA Victron turned down to 3.68 kW max inverter power and G100 export limitation to a total of 3.68 kW for everything - including the 3.68kW of my original PV. Depends on the locality I suppose but I am only 100m from the s/station, what do they use, wet string?