Nowty Towers Vs UK Grid Storage

[Joeboy]

Not a chance in our lifetimes. Gas & nukes will be with us for a long time yet.I don't like saying that but I can't see it being any other way. I'd like someone to show me I'm wrong.

Doesn't stop us chipping away in an optimistic fashion though!

[nowty]

Yes and the other problem this year has been the outages of UK Nukes which will only get worse. Currently only one Nuke being built to come on line circa 2026 and if any more are to be built, they take 20 years to build. Almost all existing UK Nukes will be out of service by 2030.

I know we have a lot of Interconnectors being built, especially with France because of their huge overcapacity of Nukes, but in the depths of winter I don't think France have much spare capacity so if a large stubborn anticyclone develops in northern Europe in winter, then I doubt interconnectors helping as much as hoped. Also I think France has committed to reduce their fleet of Nukes, even France faces a “nuclear cliff effect” in 10 years time.

With the cost of gas going up internationally as other countries migrate from coal to gas, all I see is ever increasing prices of leccy, hence domestic PV, home batteries and ripple wind turbines help to offset any personal future cost increases.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... e-by-1-000

[Bugtownboy]

Don’t get me wrong, stating the bleeping obvious, otherwise why would I be commenting, I want to see as much renewable generation as possible. But, if we, using my man maths, use 1Twh per day and only have 50% of that generated for say, two weeks, that’s 7Twh of storage (isn’t it ?).

What does that amount of storage look like - it can’t be current battery technology can it ? Sounds like hydro isn’t going to pass environmental concerns, how feasible is Hydrogen/NH3/Syngas storage ?

What other options are their that would meet the scale required ?

[nowty]

What other options are their that would meet the scale required ?

Tidal lagoons ?, its the only guaranteed renewable resource we have.

[spread-tee]

It is a tall order TBH, it could be met by a range of options, V2G as the number of EVs grow could be a big player, H2 and NH3 will also need to be rolled out in a big way for longer term storage. Pumped hydro will also need a big boost to provide short term and grid start -up capacity, but as you say there aren't that many sites that realistically pass muster. A huge increase in wind generation and also PV will be needed to provide the energy in the first place to store.

I'm not sure we will ever have a truly 100% renewable energy supply, I think there will always be a small amount of FF stand by capacity for "emergency" use, but if we could get down to a few percent of current usage maybe we could live with it?

All of the above needs political will, lots of investment, and joined up thinking


Sped

[Bugtownboy]

That’s what worries about our current form of governance - always appears to be short termism. We need a plan PDQ that probably stretches for decades, accepting that some disruptive technology may come along at any time

If we don’t have a plan now’ish I can see us getting to a point in the next decade with insufficient nukes, pressure on NG and not any coal legacy generators that we end up with major power rationing, particularly during unfavourable RE weather conditions.

I still don’t understand (well I do) why we have party politics, FPTP elections that just seem to end up mired in tribalism without some form of social governance with long term visions that benefits the country as a whole.

Anyway, shouldn’t talk politics. Soz

[Joeboy]

'The generational power plan for the four Nation island' as voted by the people and must be taken forward no matter which party in power?

I absolutely agree as long as not too many daft ideas are available to vote on. Thinking 'BoatyMcboatface' and other legendary decisions of 'The People'.

Not politics, just folk.

[Bugtownboy]

I don’t have an answer Joe, but I do think our current system has been corrupted. I naively thought Government provided governance on our behalf for the collective benefit.

Perhaps I am just being too idealistic and naive - anyway, sun’s shining and a chilled glass of something accompanied by a bowl of olives and a few pistachios await.

[Stinsy]

Serious question and not meant to be inflammatory, but how do we manage with 100% renewables when we have this scenario ?

Wind generation is seriously down in the windy bits and solar generation is down in what should be the sunny bits due to cloud.

Is there ever going to be enough storage to last several weeks of little generation, considering what was discharged wouldn’t be replaced ?

This is a problem that currently has no solution.

There are 3 levels of storage:

1) Storing energy to be used later the same day. Eg solar to be used in the evening.
2) Storing energy to be used a few days later. Eg from a sunny/windy day to be used on a less sunny/windy day.
3) Storing energy to be used months later. Eg solar from summer day to be used in winter.


Level 1 is solved. Batteries and pumped hydro are examples. Lots of innovation in this space too (eg cranes stacking concrete blocks and trains driving up and down hills.)

Level 2, as you describe, is way off, nothing economical is in the pipeline.

Long distance interconnects are the main solution to the problem of intermittent renewables. This could be Huuuuuuge solar farms in North Africa sending power to Northern Europe over HVDC interconnects.

Another solution is energy pricing. So large industrial electricity users (as well as consumers) shut down when wind/solar is in famine and ramp up when it is in excess.

[Joeboy]

I don’t have an answer Joe, but I do think our current system has been corrupted. I naively thought Government provided governance on our behalf for the collective benefit.

Perhaps I am just being too idealistic and naive - anyway, sun’s shining and a chilled glass of something accompanied by a bowl of olives and a few pistachios await.

Ach, it is what it is. More important, black or green olives?