Ripple wind and proposed revenue cap

[ecogeorge]

Got this email fro Ripple today -hope all sjubscribers and supporters will respond ........I have tonight
George .
Dear George

We need you to contact your MP and help get co-operatively owned wind farms exempted from the Government's proposed revenue cap. The revenue cap could potentially limit the bill savings you get from your wind farm ownership in future.

The Government's Electricity Prices Bill is being rushed through Parliament as emergency legislation. The Bill's 2nd reading, committee stage and 3rd reading will all take place on Monday 17th October instead of over weeks or months as would normally happen.

As the Bill is currently drafted, all electricity generators except those with a CFD or Feed in Tariff could potentially be subject to a temporary revenue cap. This means the revenues of Graig Fatha and Kirk Hill above a certain level might have to be paid to the Government rather than being applied as a saving on your bill. The Bill could effectively treat wind farms owned by consumer co-operatives exactly the same as wind farms owned by huge international utilities and infrastructure funds.

We have been in contact with various politicians, advisers and civil servants today and over the last few months.

We don't believe co-operative and consumer owned wind farms are the intended target of the revenue cap, but unless an exemption is granted, there is a risk you would be impacted.

Ideally we'd like an exemption in the primary legislation (the Bill itself). If that's not possible given the incredibly short timescales, there will be further opportunity to secure the exemption in the consultation and secondary legislation.

We want to make sure the Government and other politicians know how important an issue this is for you. It is too late for amendments to the Bill to be tabled now, but asking your local MP to raise the issue with their party's energy team increases the likelihood of it getting mentioned in the debates on Monday.

We have drafted letters you can share with your local MP. There are different letters depending on whether you're a member of Graig Fatha or Kirk Hill. If you're a member of both you can do a hybrid of the two.

Feel free to tweak them so they are personal. Just make sure to delete the words in red and replace them with the name of your MP at the top and your name and address at the bottom. Simply cut and paste the text from the letter into an email. Please make sure the text that's highlighted in yellow remains highlighted, otherwise it won't be clear what changes we are asking for.
Graig Fatha letter
Kirk Hill letter
You can find your MP and their contact details using the button below. Remember, you can reach out by email but many MPs can also be found on Twitter and Facebook.
Find my MP
We do not want to cause you to worry. We do not believe consumer and co-operativley owned wind farms are the intended target of the revenue cap, but in order to secure an exemption we do need you to highlight how important the issue is.

We'll keep you updated with any news as we get it.

Best regards

Team Ripple

[Mr Gus]

Would likely help if folk not involved in this scheme wrote in & cited it as something they wanted in on when they could afford to... because we arent going o get re-nationalised power industry again, merely billions given to power companies in our name rather than a national scheme to offset the crap being gone through at the hands of power company / fossil fuel wolves.I

i will take a look at the email tomorrow, thanks George.

[Oldgreybeard]

Good point about getting people that aren't current investors to write in. I'll certainly do this, as I've long felt that Ripple was a sound concept, the only thing that has stopped me investing is the thing I keep harping on about (far too much) - to get the benefit from the investment you need to be one of the lucky households that live somewhere where smart meters work.

[nowty]

Good point about getting people that aren't current investors to write in. I'll certainly do this, as I've long felt that Ripple was a sound concept, the only thing that has stopped me investing is the thing I keep harping on about (far too much) - to get the benefit from the investment you need to be one of the lucky households that live somewhere where smart meters work.

You do not need a smart meter for the Ripple projects, but you do need to join Octopus or one of the other supplier partners.

https://rippleenergy.com/FAQ/switching

"Do I need a smart meter?
You don’t need a smart meter but our supply partners may offer you one when you switch."

[Adokforme]

Thanks for heads up George, email duly despatched.

[John_S]

Good point about getting people that aren't current investors to write in. I'll certainly do this, as I've long felt that Ripple was a sound concept, the only thing that has stopped me investing is the thing I keep harping on about (far too much) - to get the benefit from the investment you need to be one of the lucky households that live somewhere where smart meters work.

I have had a quick re read of the Graig Fartha offer document. As I could not find the requirement to have a smart meter, could you be as kind to point out the page number and paragraph of the requirements.

It is,of course, quite possible that a glass or two of wine impaired my vision, in which case, apologies. But please still point out the requirement for my curiosity.

John

[Oldgreybeard]

Good point about getting people that aren't current investors to write in. I'll certainly do this, as I've long felt that Ripple was a sound concept, the only thing that has stopped me investing is the thing I keep harping on about (far too much) - to get the benefit from the investment you need to be one of the lucky households that live somewhere where smart meters work.

You do not need a smart meter for the Ripple projects, but you do need to join Octopus or one of the other supplier partners.

https://rippleenergy.com/FAQ/switching

Do I need a smart meter?
You don’t need a smart meter but our supply partners may offer you one when you switch.

The snag is that Octopus have been unclear on whether or not I could switch to them with our (fairly new - installed in 2019) E7 meter. I've been on the phone with them (helpful, but they didn't know the answer) and have emailed them (several times) and as yet I've been unable to get them to confirm whether they would accept me as a customer with no possibility of getting a working smart meter, or even find the tariff that I'd be paying. To be fair, the lady I spoke with on the phone was helpful and did try and get clarification from someone else, but the bottom line is that months later I'm still no wiser (and I do appreciate that others here have had very different experiences).

Until someone has experienced the road blocks that suppliers are putting in place for anyone that physically cannot have a smart meter I'm not sure they can appreciate the level of frustration it creates. The biggest single problem with all suppliers is that they just don't seem to have a clue as to whether they can accept a new customer without a smart meter, that needs to stay on an E7 like tariff, or even give that potential new customer an accurate tariff. It's not the call centre staff's fault, with every supplier I've contacted it seems that the information just isn't readily available. With one supplier I spoke with a couple of weeks ago (EDF) I had to tell the person on the phone the URL for their tariff document, when asking if it was still valid for new customers after 1st October (they didn't know).

[Mr Gus]

We are with Octopus (3 years I think). ✔

We were offered a smart /smets meter & declined it ✔
(explained our concerns, & rationalised that we are already consuming less, are concientious to time as much as possible to night time low demand grid, heat pump, ... nature loving hippies who would go further if when we could without big brother flicking switches being necessary)

& we are of course into Ripple scheme 2. ✔

No problem

[AE-NMidlands]

Ripple power/savings are also available through what was Coop fuel and is now badged as a coop tarrif delivered by Octopus. I don't know if it's still taking new customers, I think I might have paid a fiver to join the Midcounties Coop which ran it. The (small) coop "dividend" is applied direct to the fuel account too, like the Ripple savings. (Looks like it is still open: https://energy.yourcoop.coop/)
They/Octopus keep offering me a smart meter, but don't push it. I'm not on or looking for a TOU tarrif yet, but will be one day.
I'm currently waiting to find out what my capped variable tarrif will be when the 1-year fixed ends in 10 days time...
A

[nowty]

I thought I'd copy the relevant part of the proposed legislation, it seems to me, its just a general template for the government to charge whatever it see's fit to whoever it wants, apart from the exceptions which I put in bold at the end. I believe there will be some later consultation to decide what will actually happen in terms of who will be affected and by how much.

The way its currently written, even a DIY solar installation could be asked to make payments to the payment administrator, you really don't want to be regarded as a "relevant generating station"

Reducing the price of electricity
16 Temporary requirement for electricity generators to make payments
(1) The Secretary of State may, for a purpose mentioned in subsection (2), make
regulations for, and in connection with, requiring periodic payments to be made to a
payment administrator by—
(a) specified electricity generators,
(b) electricity generators that are of a specified description, or
(c) electricity generators that are designated by the Secretary of State in
accordance with the regulations.
(2) The purposes are—
(a) the purpose of enabling a payment administrator to obtain funds for
paying to electricity suppliers in connection with reducing the cost to
customers of electricity;
(b) the purpose of enabling a payment administrator to obtain funds for
meeting expenditure incurred or to be incurred by the Secretary of State
in reducing the cost to customers of electricity.
(3) Regulations under this section may include—
(a) provision about the method by which the amount of a periodic
payment is to be calculated;
(b) provision for determining the time at which a periodic payment is to be
made;
(c) provision requiring the making of an advance payment in respect of a
potential liability to make a periodic payment and about balancing
payments;
(d) provision about interest on a late payment and penalties for a late
payment;
(e) provision for a payment, interest or a penalty to be recoverable by a
payment administrator as a civil debt;
(f) provision for amounts received by a payment administrator to be paid
by the payment administrator to electricity suppliers or into the
Consolidated Fund;
(g) provision imposing on an electricity supplier that receives a payment
from a payment administrator a requirement to secure that customers
of the electricity supplier receive, by a specified time, such benefit from
the payment as may be specified or determined in accordance with the
regulations;
(h) provision for amounts received by a payment administrator to be
retained by the payment administrator to meet expenditure incurred
by the payment administrator in exercising functions under the
regulations;
(i) provision conferring functions in connection with the application,
monitoring or enforcement of the regulations on the Secretary of State,
a payment administrator, GEMA, the Northern Ireland Regulator or
any other person;
(j) provision conferring functions in connection with the application,
monitoring or enforcement of the regulations on a person designated
by the Secretary of State in accordance with the regulations;
(k) provision conferring powers on any person to require information for
the purpose of exercising their functions under the regulations;
(l) provision for anything which is to be calculated or determined under
the regulations to be calculated or determined by such persons, in
accordance with such procedure and by reference to such matters and
to the opinion of such persons, as may be specified in the regulations;
(m) provision for an appeal against a calculation, determination or other
decision made under the regulations;
(n) provision to deal with the consequences of, or to prohibit or otherwise
regulate, transactions or arrangements that undermine the
effectiveness of the regulations.
(4) The provision made by virtue of subsection (3)(a) must require the amount of
a periodic payment to be calculated by reference to the quantity of electricity
generated during the period in question by the relevant generating station with
which the electricity generator is concerned.
(5) The provision made by virtue of subsection (3)(i) may include provision
conferring a power on the Secretary of State to direct that an electricity
generator specified in, or of a description specified in, the direction is not liable
to make further payments under the regulations.
(6) The provision made by virtue of subsection (3)(i) may include provision for
requirements imposed on a person by the regulations to be enforceable—
(a) by GEMA—
(i) as if they were relevant requirements for the purposes of section
25 of the Electricity Act 1989, and
(ii) as if the person were a regulated person for the purposes of that
section (if that is not in fact the case);
(b) by the Northern Ireland Regulator—
(i) as if they were relevant requirements for the purposes of Article
41A of the Energy (Northern Ireland) Order 2003 (S.I. 2003/419
(N.I. 6)), and
(ii) as if the person were a regulated person for the purposes of that
Article (if that is not in fact the case).
(7) The first regulations under this section are subject to the affirmative procedure.
(8) Any other regulations under this section are subject to the negative procedure.
(9) For provision imposing a time limit relevant to the exercise of the powers
conferred by this section, see Schedule 6.
(10) In this section—
“electricity generator” means a person who owns or has any interest in a
relevant generating station; and a reference to the relevant generating
station with which an electricity generator is concerned is to be read
accordingly;
“electricity supplier” means a person who is a holder of a licence to supply
electricity under—
(a) section 6(1)(d) of the Electricity Act 1989, or
(b) Article 10(1)(c) of the Electricity (Northern Ireland) Order 1992
(S.I. 1992/231 (N.I. 1);
“generating station” means a station which generates electricity or any
part of such a station;
“payment administrator” means a person specified as a payment
administrator for the purposes of regulations under this section;
“relevant generating station” means a generating station—
(a) in respect of which no contract for difference has effect under
Chapter 2 of Part 2 of the Energy Act 2013 (ignoring any
contract for difference under which no payments have begun to
fall due), and
(b) that is not an accredited FIT installation within the meaning of
the Feed-in Tariffs Order 2012 (S.I. 2012/2782);
“specified”, except in subsection (5), means specified in regulations under
this section.