RMS messing about with a sand battery

[GarethC]

You can't buy those today though, can you? And if not why not!?

[nowty]

You can't buy those today though, can you? And if not why not!?

There is a more modern similar product, we talked about it here.
And a storage heater is much the same thing too.
https://camelot-forum.co.uk/phpBB3/view ... =15#p14477

[Oldgreybeard]

You can't buy those today though, can you? And if not why not!?

I think the simple answer is just economics. GEC never made any real money on them, and they last for many decades without wearing out (there are many thousands of them still in use today - they stopped being made around 40 years or so ago). Also, they were created at a time when storage heating was seen as the way forward, then cheap gas came along and suddenly storage heating didn't make sense, economically.

If anything they were made far too well, plus they are simple enough to be more or less infinitely repairable, as they have very few parts that can't be replaced easily with generic components. I know a couple of people that still have them, and wouldn't ever consider getting rid of them, just because they are so reliable.

[Moxi]

In another thread think Nowty linked an ebay sale to a second-hand unit, so they are available, if you're going modern and avoiding the probable use of asbestos in old second-hand thermal stores of all varieties then i think OGB and a few others have identified the Tepeo boiler which is much the same IIRC

I see Nowty has beaten me to it lol

Moxi

[nowty]

One still for sale here, its been on for many months.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/164965960470 ... SwCHhg9GgW

[Oldgreybeard]

One still for sale here, its been on for many months.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/164965960470 ... SwCHhg9GgW

IIRC, the Nightstor 100 weighs about a tonne, and needs to be completely dismantled to move. I looked at it's larger brother, the Nightstor 250, a while ago and it would be a serious undertaking to shift, with a great deal of dismantling work needed to remove all the feolite bricks, a lot more work than taking apart a storage heater, because of the added complication of the wet system components.

[Moxi]

One still for sale here, its been on for many months.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/164965960470 ... SwCHhg9GgW

IIRC, the Nightstor 100 weighs about a tonne, and needs to be completely dismantled to move. I looked at it's larger brother, the Nightstor 250, a while ago and it would be a serious undertaking to shift, with a great deal of dismantling work needed to remove all the feolite bricks, a lot more work than taking apart a storage heater, because of the added complication of the wet system components.

The 60 was 625kg the80 was 750kg and the large 160 was a whopping 1341kg, - as we have discussed in a few places over the last month - thermal mass and insulation is the basic need, getting DHW from it just requires some pipes a pump and a mixer valve.

As OGB said, the GEC unit was too simple and too reliable for commercial use BUT as a DIY system for folk with space in the house and strong floors or a nice space outside for a lean to then something of this ilk at say 2 tonne thermal mass would probably be the answer to most people's winter heating prayers.

Moxi

[AE-NMidlands]

something of this ilk at say 2 tonne thermal mass would probably be the answer to most people's winter heating prayers.
Moxi

... as long as they can afford the fuel to heat it (even at night/cheap rates) in the first place...
A

[Oldgreybeard]

Just found the specs for the "three phase" *** Nightstor 100, it's a little bit lighter than I thought, but still a serious lump:

Input element rating = 19.2kW (Off-Peak), 9.6kW (Boost)
Hot water output at full charge = 22kW
Approx installed weight = 750kg
Width = 610mm
Depth = 596mm
Height = 1664mm

*** They are really two and half phase, as they have two heating elements, rated at 9.6kW each, connected to two phases with the control box connected to the third phase. When in boost mode they just use one of the two 9.6kW heaters on a single phase.

[Moxi]

I was thinking more like using thermal vacuum tube collectors or even the flat plate units like they use on the moonstone house, they have 30 square meters but that house is huge! so a standard thermal vacuum tube unit should be able to deliver most of the heat requirement if any daily excess is directed to the thermal store for later use. Thats why i suggested 2 tonne for the mass as this offsets the sub 3 digit heat content you would achieve via tubes. I suppose having lifted the mass some way with solar thermal you could (if you have it) add some solar electric heat but that sounds less efficient considering the value of electric.

Having said all that we then hit the obvious point which OGB raised earlier that water is better and most homes are set up with wet heating (most not all)

As they say - nothing new under the sun

The moonstone project house is worth a look over on oohtube if no one has seen it before.

Moxi