EV charge point approved with remedial works

All things related to vehicles - EVs, transport, fuels
sharpener
Posts: 439
Joined: Fri May 20, 2022 10:42 am

Re: EV charge point approved with remedial works

#31

Post by sharpener »

Update: Have still heard nothng from the DNO regarding the suoposed "remedial works".

I will give it another week or three and then enquire about adding an ASHP.

As @OGB and others point out, the trend in usage is (with the current offpeak pricing regime) going to shift towards massive demand at the start of the offpeak period. The +/- 10mins staggered start offered by smart EV chargers is mere tinkering with that. I will argue that the ASHP will mostly be drawing current in the daytime so not be additive with the ESS and the EV. But in reality I also want to have a large thermal store and will have the HP running at night to charge it up. The ESS is however restricted to 5A at night to keep the fan noise down.

So I want to get my bid in early, HPs are starting to catch on in the village but not many EVs yet. Fortunately I am less than 200m from the s/station (which is why I see 245V or more).

Assuming that the 35 mm^2 incomer is good for 100A, will the DNO (WPD) charge me for upgrading their fuse? I don't know what it is currently rated at but I don't suppose it is more than 80.
16 x 230W Upsolar panels S Devon, 4kW Steca, 3.9 MWh FITs/yr
8 x 405W Longi panels, 250/60 MPPT, 3.3 MWh/yr
Victron MultiPlus II-GX 48/5000/70-50
10.65 kWh Pylontec Force-L2
zappi 7kW EVCS
Villavent whole-house MVHR
5000l rainwater system
Vaillant 12kW HP
User avatar
nowty
Posts: 5949
Joined: Mon May 31, 2021 2:36 pm
Location: South Coast

Re: EV charge point approved with remedial works

#32

Post by nowty »

sharpener wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:49 am Assuming that the 35 mm^2 incomer is good for 100A, will the DNO (WPD) charge me for upgrading their fuse? I don't know what it is currently rated at but I don't suppose it is more than 80.
Some do, some don't, mine didn't.
https://connections.nationalgrid.co.uk/ ... se-upgrade
18.7kW PV > 109MWh generated
Ripple 6.6kW Wind + 4.5kW PV > 27MWh generated
6 Other RE Coop's
105kWh EV storage
60kWh Home battery storage
40kWh Thermal storage
GSHP + A2A HP's
Rain water use > 520 m3
sharpener
Posts: 439
Joined: Fri May 20, 2022 10:42 am

Re: EV charge point approved with remedial works

#33

Post by sharpener »

Following up that link I see their sophisticated(!) online tool says you need a 18.4 kVA (80A) supply for a house, whether it has 1 or 5 (max) bedrooms and whether the heating is gas, oil, direct electric or heatpump. However another part of the site says "Advice: The normal maximum capacity for individual domestic properties is 15kVA." You can however set a requested figure of more than 250 kVA.

Does not inspire much confidence in their process.
16 x 230W Upsolar panels S Devon, 4kW Steca, 3.9 MWh FITs/yr
8 x 405W Longi panels, 250/60 MPPT, 3.3 MWh/yr
Victron MultiPlus II-GX 48/5000/70-50
10.65 kWh Pylontec Force-L2
zappi 7kW EVCS
Villavent whole-house MVHR
5000l rainwater system
Vaillant 12kW HP
sharpener
Posts: 439
Joined: Fri May 20, 2022 10:42 am

Re: EV charge point approved with remedial works

#34

Post by sharpener »

After a mere 5 months(!) NG have sprung into action and tell me they need to "change my cut-out", presumably these are the "remedial works". No mention of at whose expense. Nor what size they are proposing to fit. Do they know the meter is only 80A and I have 16 mm^2 tails? Will the supply then be sufficient for the HP I am proposing to fit in the future?

I have requested a callback but am not holding my breath.
16 x 230W Upsolar panels S Devon, 4kW Steca, 3.9 MWh FITs/yr
8 x 405W Longi panels, 250/60 MPPT, 3.3 MWh/yr
Victron MultiPlus II-GX 48/5000/70-50
10.65 kWh Pylontec Force-L2
zappi 7kW EVCS
Villavent whole-house MVHR
5000l rainwater system
Vaillant 12kW HP
sharpener
Posts: 439
Joined: Fri May 20, 2022 10:42 am

Re: EV charge point approved with remedial works

#35

Post by sharpener »

sharpener wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 2:59 pm Following up that link I see their sophisticated(!) online tool says you need a 18.4 kVA (80A) supply for a house, whether it has 1 or 5 (max) bedrooms and whether the heating is gas, oil, direct electric or heatpump. However another part of the site says "Advice: The normal maximum capacity for individual domestic properties is 15kVA." You can however set a requested figure of more than 250 kVA.

Does not inspire much confidence in their process.
So after 3 email exchanges and 3 telephone calls I have established that in two weeks' time they will upgrade me free of charge to 80A (so much for the "normal maximum capacity for a house" above). I don't need to be here (but will disconnect my whole-house Victron system remotely as a precaution).

They can't advise over the phone what size of HP if any I will be able to connect once the upgrade has been done. I am hoping it will be OK since the HP will be used in the daytime and the EV charger at night. Anyone got any pointers?
16 x 230W Upsolar panels S Devon, 4kW Steca, 3.9 MWh FITs/yr
8 x 405W Longi panels, 250/60 MPPT, 3.3 MWh/yr
Victron MultiPlus II-GX 48/5000/70-50
10.65 kWh Pylontec Force-L2
zappi 7kW EVCS
Villavent whole-house MVHR
5000l rainwater system
Vaillant 12kW HP
greentangerine
Posts: 67
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2021 12:31 pm

Re: EV charge point approved with remedial works

#36

Post by greentangerine »

sharpener wrote: Sun May 21, 2023 2:08 pm They can't advise over the phone what size of HP if any I will be able to connect once the upgrade has been done. I am hoping it will be OK since the HP will be used in the daytime and the EV charger at night. Anyone got any pointers?
Just some observations from my experience...

SSE insisted on a visit when I had my HP installed last year as they said I needed a 100A fuse. It was already (and told them so) but their records were incomplete and so they came to confirm.

I'm on Octopus Go and use a lot of power overnight, especially in cold periods. EV car charging, Eddi heating hot water, two washing machines and two dishwashers plus now the HP.

Don't assume the HP won't kick in overnight - you'll need a setback but for efficiency it needs to be high otherwise your house will be cold next morning as the HP tries to catch-up.

I rely on the fact that the Eddi and the OpenEVSE charger have load management to prevent me blowing the house fuse - they'll reduce their take as and when necessary and it worked fine over last Winter. Your Zappi can do the same if configured correctly.
65 x Ø58mm SunnPro/Gledhill 450l
Solis Mini 4G 3kW/Sharp ND210/2.94kWp
SB1600/Sharp ND220/1.76kWp
SB1600/Kinve 235/2.115kWp
Dean Forge Croft Clearburn 11kW
SoFar ME3000/Pylontech US2000/19.2kWh
Ecodan 11kW HP
MG4
PVOutput
sharpener
Posts: 439
Joined: Fri May 20, 2022 10:42 am

Re: EV charge point approved with remedial works

#37

Post by sharpener »

greentangerine wrote: Mon May 22, 2023 11:02 am
sharpener wrote: Sun May 21, 2023 2:08 pm They can't advise over the phone what size of HP if any I will be able to connect once the upgrade has been done. I am hoping it will be OK since the HP will be used in the daytime and the EV charger at night. Anyone got any pointers?
I'm on Octopus Go and use a lot of power overnight, especially in cold periods. EV car charging, Eddi heating hot water, two washing machines and two dishwashers plus now the HP.

Don't assume the HP won't kick in overnight - you'll need a setback but for efficiency it needs to be high otherwise your house will be cold next morning as the HP tries to catch-up.
Interesting, thanks for this. I will probably need an HP about the size of yr Ecodan. But am hoping for a lower peak load as I have more panels/fewer EVs, and can spread it over a longer period on traditional E7 so can run the HP 0500 - 0700 to heat the DHW and rads at off-peak rates. Only need the rad in the bedroom first thing.

Other problem is both the meter and the meter tails would need upgrading for 100A, the tails run through a 600mm thick stone wall with various other cables embedded too so not an easy job.
greentangerine wrote: Mon May 22, 2023 11:02 am
I rely on the fact that the Eddi and the OpenEVSE charger have load management to prevent me blowing the house fuse - they'll reduce their take as and when necessary and it worked fine over last Winter. Your Zappi can do the same if configured correctly.
Technically the zappi is not supposed to be used with a wireless harvi if load limiting is in operation, though there are plenty of installations out there that do and I certainly plan to if necessary.
sharpener wrote: Sun May 21, 2023 2:08 pm I don't need to be here (but will disconnect my whole-house Victron system remotely as a precaution).
Have now tried out the remote disconnectiion facility, oddly it resulted in a peak load of nearly 9kW, I think something made the zappi call for the maximum 7kW. Must be careful not to click on OFF by mistake, that is not recoverable as it will kill the router! Long-term I plan to put in auto fallback to grid if Victron system fails, mainly to ensure the freezer stays alive if I am away.
16 x 230W Upsolar panels S Devon, 4kW Steca, 3.9 MWh FITs/yr
8 x 405W Longi panels, 250/60 MPPT, 3.3 MWh/yr
Victron MultiPlus II-GX 48/5000/70-50
10.65 kWh Pylontec Force-L2
zappi 7kW EVCS
Villavent whole-house MVHR
5000l rainwater system
Vaillant 12kW HP
sharpener
Posts: 439
Joined: Fri May 20, 2022 10:42 am

Re: EV charge point approved with remedial works

#38

Post by sharpener »

So to cut a long story short NGED's "remedial works" consisted of pulling out their fuse, findng it was already 80A anyway, putting it back and leaving a card to tell me. No advice by email despite my request but I could see they had visited from the Victron log, frequency drops to zero for 1 minute!

DNO pulls fuse.png
DNO pulls fuse.png (30.88 KiB) Viewed 2213 times

The Victron remote disconnect/reconnect facility worked fine and there was no interruption to the house supply - the router stayed up during the whole process on this occasion. But doing it still makes me nervous!
16 x 230W Upsolar panels S Devon, 4kW Steca, 3.9 MWh FITs/yr
8 x 405W Longi panels, 250/60 MPPT, 3.3 MWh/yr
Victron MultiPlus II-GX 48/5000/70-50
10.65 kWh Pylontec Force-L2
zappi 7kW EVCS
Villavent whole-house MVHR
5000l rainwater system
Vaillant 12kW HP
Tinbum
Posts: 1173
Joined: Mon May 31, 2021 9:55 pm

Re: EV charge point approved with remedial works

#39

Post by Tinbum »

When I had 3 phase installed about 10 years ago the DNO left both my supplies with 100A fuses in. At the time I was with 2 different suppliers. When fitting the meters one left the 100A fuses in and put in 25mm tails. The other removed the 100A fuses, replaced them with something else and ripped the labels off the fuse carrier and put in 16mm tails. I couldn't understand why, when the DNO were happy with 100A fuses, one supplier wasn't.

As I've just had a smart meter installed I asked the fitter what fuses were fitted. He found they were 80A and he put 80A labels on the fuse carrier. He also changed the tails to 25mm, replaced the isolator switch but he said he couldn't put in 100A fuses.
Last edited by Tinbum on Wed Jun 14, 2023 11:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
85no 58mm solar thermal tubes, 28.5Kw PV, 3x Sunny Island 5048, 2795 Ah (135kWh) (c20) Rolls batteries 48v, 8kWh Growatt storage, 22 x US3000C Pylontech, Sofar ME3000's, Brosley wood burner and 250lt DHW
sharpener
Posts: 439
Joined: Fri May 20, 2022 10:42 am

Re: EV charge point approved with remedial works

#40

Post by sharpener »

Tinbum wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2023 12:10 pm He found were 80A and he put 80A labels on the fuse carrier.
From years ago I remember labels were the norm.

If WPD (as they then were) had labelled the fuse when they pulled it at my expense only two years ago so I could fit an isolator OR kept a record of what was fitted then they would not have had to attend now at their own expense. And I would have been confident enough to declare 80A on my G99 form so saving any need for their laughable "remedial works" which have taken them six months
.
Tinbum wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2023 12:10 pm I couldn't understand why, when the DNO were happy with 100A fuses, one supplier wasn't.

As I've just had a smart meter installed I asked the fitter what fuses were fitted. He also changed the tails to 25mm, replaced the isolator switch but he said he couldn't put in 100A fuses.
None of it makes any sense. Unless he has told you of a future upgrade path to get 100A why on earth did he bother changing the tails?
16 x 230W Upsolar panels S Devon, 4kW Steca, 3.9 MWh FITs/yr
8 x 405W Longi panels, 250/60 MPPT, 3.3 MWh/yr
Victron MultiPlus II-GX 48/5000/70-50
10.65 kWh Pylontec Force-L2
zappi 7kW EVCS
Villavent whole-house MVHR
5000l rainwater system
Vaillant 12kW HP
Post Reply