wind curtailment

[nowty]

A couple of docs regarding renewable constraints.

https://www.regen.co.uk/wp-content/uplo ... -Costs.pdf

https://www.drax.com/wp-content/uploads ... port-1.pdf

And a very long read here about future energy scenarios.
https://www.nationalgrideso.com/documen ... 1/download

[John_S]

Installed wind capacity is about 28GW at present and grid demand varies between approx 20 and 40GW depending on time of day and season of year. Also demand will increase as gas is phased out from heating, increased use of EVs and economic growth. Further wind capacity is under construction and being planned.

At the moment, as I understand it, curtailment payments are made when the grid cannot get electricity, generally wind, from where it produced, eg Scotland and the North Sea, to where there is demand, eg southern England.

What will happen when the grid connections are (eventually) made and curtailment of output is required because capacity increases faster than demand. The wind pipeline is around 100GW https://camelot-forum.co.uk/phpBB3/view ... =28&t=2259

Will curtailment payments still be made to idle wind farms?

[AE-NMidlands]

Installed wind capacity is about 28GW at present and grid demand varies between approx 20 and 40GW depending on time of day and season of year. Also demand will increase as gas is phased out from heating, increased use of EVs and economic growth. Further wind capacity is under construction and being planned.

At the moment, as I understand it, curtailment payments are made when the grid cannot get electricity, generally wind, from where it produced, eg Scotland and the North Sea, to where there is demand, eg southern England.

What will happen when the grid connections are (eventually) made and curtailment of output is required because capacity increases faster than demand. The wind pipeline is around 100GW https://camelot-forum.co.uk/phpBB3/view ... =28&t=2259

Will curtailment payments still be made to idle wind farms?

Is this what SWWills is on about with "nodal charging?" If you are in an area with surplus and no interconnector export capacity then you get a negative price so that it doesn't go to waste? I imagine that will be really difficult when most folks won't be able to cope with the concept of a dynamic price... or is domestic consumption not involved in this?

[nowty]

From the National grid document on Net Zero scenarios,
https://www.nationalgrideso.com/documen ... 1/download

The scenarios are,



And for curtailment vs each scenario (page 222), goes up significantly in all scenarios before falling back in a couple of decades or so.



To put that in perspective, if we believe the curtailment wind site, https://wind-curtailment-app-ahq7fucdyq-lz.a.run.app/
we are about 7.3 TWh curtailed so far in 2023.

[nowty]

Installed wind capacity is about 28GW at present and grid demand varies between approx 20 and 40GW depending on time of day and season of year. Also demand will increase as gas is phased out from heating, increased use of EVs and economic growth. Further wind capacity is under construction and being planned.

At the moment, as I understand it, curtailment payments are made when the grid cannot get electricity, generally wind, from where it produced, eg Scotland and the North Sea, to where there is demand, eg southern England.

What will happen when the grid connections are (eventually) made and curtailment of output is required because capacity increases faster than demand. The wind pipeline is around 100GW https://camelot-forum.co.uk/phpBB3/view ... =28&t=2259

Will curtailment payments still be made to idle wind farms?

Is this what SWWills is on about with "nodal charging?" If you are in an area with surplus and no interconnector export capacity then you get a negative price so that it doesn't go to waste? I imagine that will be really difficult when most folks won't be able to cope with the concept of a dynamic price... or is domestic consumption not involved in this?

I briefly posted about locational pricing (Nodal and Zonal) here,
https://camelot-forum.co.uk/phpBB3/view ... =10#p34123

It won't affect the Offshore wind on CFD contracts as they will get compensated by the Low Carbon Contracts Company (LCCC). However locational pricing might give folk in local areas cheaper leccy prices through their supplier because it should bring wholesale leccy prices down in those areas. I believe subsidised wind farms will still get constraint payments, but the timescales John_S is talking about, rules wont be the same as today.

[Mart]

Will things get more complicated as the early PV and wind farms start to fall out of their 15yr CfD contracts in the early 2030's?

[nowty]

Will things get more complicated as the early PV and wind farms start to fall out of their 15yr CfD contracts in the early 2030's?

Thats a very good question Mart.

I think we have to distinguish curtailment from constraint payments as not every renewable asset is entitled to them. So curtailment may still be high but the costs of constraint payments may reduce.

I think your right about things being more complicated, its not just the CFD contracts ending, its wholesale market reform, mass adoption of EVs, green hydrogen, future costs of FF, carbon markets, political interference, public engagement, etc. There are too many variables at play.

[Moxi]

Given that the majority of the generation is North and the bulk of the load is based in the South would a shallow submarine cable or two laid along the coastal waters be a cheaper easier solution to transmission costs compared with a land based solution ?

Apologies if this already exists.

Moxi

[Mr Gus]

Given that the majority of the generation is North and the bulk of the load is based in the South would a shallow submarine cable or two laid along the coastal waters be a cheaper easier solution to transmission costs compared with a land based solution ?

Apologies if this already exists.

Moxi

Perfectly rational idea Moxi, no reason why it should not be considered as part of a Northern energy producing to a typically Southern energy sucking solution, presumably a lot easier to protect & maintain too (one would hope)

[nowty]

Given that the majority of the generation is North and the bulk of the load is based in the South would a shallow submarine cable or two laid along the coastal waters be a cheaper easier solution to transmission costs compared with a land based solution ?

Apologies if this already exists.

Moxi

Perfectly rational idea Moxi, no reason why it should not be considered as part of a Northern energy producing to a typically Southern energy sucking solution, presumably a lot easier to protect & maintain too (one would hope)

This may help,
https://www.nationalgrideso.com/documen ... 1/download