Grr...

[Moxi]

Totally agree Dan. I'm hoping that folk who want a Range Rover will be persuaded by something similar like the Kia EV9 (or its sister, the Hyundai Ioniq 9). At £65k and ~300 miles, I'd think that compares very well, like for like.

The Kia EV9 fully-electric 7-seater SUV.

Sorry Mart I can't agree with your comparison at all, I mean, both the Ioniq and the Kia will be significantly more reliable than a Range Rover which has a track record for poor mechanical and electrical reliability as well as an awful build quality. Add to this all the trips to the petrol station to fill up the gas guzzling engine and the regular and costly trips to the dealership for the services, noisy invasive engine noise in the cabin, etc and you can see that owning a Range Rover is far from an enjoyable experience.

Moxi

I think that's a bit unfair - I agree about the reliability, but the Rangerover is one of the best luxury vehicles in terms of a quiet cabin etc.

I don't understand the need to artificially bash SUVs.

I was watching the fully charged show yesterday, and Robert Lewellyn was banging on about SUVs - Yes the extra large ones have a much larger climate impact - but then he was saying how they break down much more and you "see them broken down all along the road side every time you drive" - What??!!
We need to be objective with our reasons for people to choose something other than petrol/diesel SUVs, otherwise our genuine climate related arguments could be ignored

Its not unfair its based on easily accessed information - one example being: https://enginepatrol.com/range-rover-be ... rst-years/

I drive an EV6 and a Toyota RAV 2.2 ltr diesel which is my main towing vehicle (I do tow with the EV6 as well) and I haven't claimed to be anti one thing or another, all I have said is in my opinion based on personal experience and market research the LR isn't the best car for my £ and I couldn't with a clear conscience advocate buying one in any situation other than if someone came to me and said " I NEEEEEED A Land Rover in my life just because I want the badge......... which one is best" Then I would suck my teeth and go and do some more in depth research and advise them, but I would still probably also try and get them to consider other large diesel SUV alternatives based on reliability quality finish and price.

As for Robert L - yes he does bash SUV's but its all linked back to auditable facts such as environmental impact, reliability, cost to own, etc etc so you may not like the message for whatever your personal conscious and unconscious biases determine but the facts still remain the facts.

If you wanted to base the discussion on pure environmental principles then we should all be walking or cycling and no one should own a car or take flights etc but thats not often postulated as its too big a step for most folk to accept (me included).

Moxi

[Mart]

Totally agree Dan. I'm hoping that folk who want a Range Rover will be persuaded by something similar like the Kia EV9 (or its sister, the Hyundai Ioniq 9). At £65k and ~300 miles, I'd think that compares very well, like for like.

The Kia EV9 fully-electric 7-seater SUV.

Sorry Mart I can't agree with your comparison at all, I mean, both the Ioniq and the Kia will be significantly more reliable than a Range Rover which has a track record for poor mechanical and electrical reliability as well as an awful build quality. Add to this all the trips to the petrol station to fill up the gas guzzling engine and the regular and costly trips to the dealership for the services, noisy invasive engine noise in the cabin, etc and you can see that owning a Range Rover is far from an enjoyable experience.

On the plus side if they are exporting lots of green electric for other to use its not al bad but they would only get a D "must try harder " if it was the end of year school report.

Moxi

LOL, love it.

But you forgot theft ..... I'm sure I've heard they are one of, if not the most nicked vehicles in the UK. Super easy (barely an inconvenience) to steal.

Switching to the issue of bashing (or not), I'm with you, I don't think Dan was bashing them, just pointing out that they have a near perfect set up for a BEV / super cheap BEV'ing, so a shame not to have ticked that box too. But the opportunity is now there, so maybe in the future. Fingers crossed that they/others will get a small, cheap, secondhand BEV in addition to an ICE, or to replace a second ICE, and quickly realise just how great BEV's are.

[Edit - just to clarify, not bashing the Range Rover per se, just that it was an ICE. A Range Rover BEV would have been great too, in this scenario. So lots of future potential as we transition to BEV's.]

[dan_b]

The amusing part of this story is their brand new Range Rover is currently broken down and undrivable because the additional immobiliser and tracker system that was installed in order to make it insurable (RRs are the most stolen vehicles in the country right now) has failed (RRs are one of the most unreliable vehicle brands in the country right now).

I guess what frustrates me is that they didn't even get the hybrid with a plug. At least they could have had that gateway drug of home-refuelling and free miles around their local lanes?

But you're right, I didnt' meant to hang them out to dry for what they've done - which has so far definitely been more than most would ever. Also size envy - 30kWp of panels and 30kWh of batteries - I mean who wouldn't be envious of that?!

[richbee]

Sorry Mart I can't agree with your comparison at all, I mean, both the Ioniq and the Kia will be significantly more reliable than a Range Rover which has a track record for poor mechanical and electrical reliability as well as an awful build quality. Add to this all the trips to the petrol station to fill up the gas guzzling engine and the regular and costly trips to the dealership for the services, noisy invasive engine noise in the cabin, etc and you can see that owning a Range Rover is far from an enjoyable experience.

Moxi

I think that's a bit unfair - I agree about the reliability, but the Rangerover is one of the best luxury vehicles in terms of a quiet cabin etc.

I don't understand the need to artificially bash SUVs.

I was watching the fully charged show yesterday, and Robert Lewellyn was banging on about SUVs - Yes the extra large ones have a much larger climate impact - but then he was saying how they break down much more and you "see them broken down all along the road side every time you drive" - What??!!
We need to be objective with our reasons for people to choose something other than petrol/diesel SUVs, otherwise our genuine climate related arguments could be ignored

Its not unfair its based on easily accessed information - one example being: https://enginepatrol.com/range-rover-be ... rst-years/

I drive an EV6 and a Toyota RAV 2.2 ltr diesel which is my main towing vehicle (I do tow with the EV6 as well) and I haven't claimed to be anti one thing or another, all I have said is in my opinion based on personal experience and market research the LR isn't the best car for my £ and I couldn't with a clear conscience advocate buying one in any situation other than if someone came to me and said " I NEEEEEED A Land Rover in my life just because I want the badge......... which one is best" Then I would suck my teeth and go and do some more in depth research and advise them, but I would still probably also try and get them to consider other large diesel SUV alternatives based on reliability quality finish and price.

As for Robert L - yes he does bash SUV's but its all linked back to auditable facts such as environmental impact, reliability, cost to own, etc etc so you may not like the message for whatever your personal conscious and unconscious biases determine but the facts still remain the facts.

If you wanted to base the discussion on pure environmental principles then we should all be walking or cycling and no one should own a car or take flights etc but thats not often postulated as its too big a step for most folk to accept (me included).

Moxi

Sorry Moxi, I was meaning to say that if you list 3 disadvantages which are objectively true - eg. reliability, fuel cost, service costs on the account of reliabilty - but then add a 4th one which is questionable - "noisy, invasive engine noise in the cabin" - given that Rangerovers are renowned for their comfort, opulence, luxury.
I feel that it risks people throwing the baby out with the bath water and ignoring the 3 absolutely true disadvantages.

BTW, not sure about the link you posted, it states on the front page:
"JD Power has provided the Range Rover with above-average ratings. In 2022, this vehicle received a consumer score of 76 out of 100, with great individual ratings for “quality & reliability” and “driving experience,” at 80 and 84 (out of 100), respectively."

[Yuff]

My last car before an EV was a RR sport and it’s one of the best cars I have driven.
When the fully electric version is out I suspect I’ll get one if it’s insurable of course.

[Ken]

every banker needs a Range Rover -image matters. They would drive around in the worst car if that was the image. keep up.

[Moxi]

I think that's a bit unfair - I agree about the reliability, but the Rangerover is one of the best luxury vehicles in terms of a quiet cabin etc.

I don't understand the need to artificially bash SUVs.

I was watching the fully charged show yesterday, and Robert Lewellyn was banging on about SUVs - Yes the extra large ones have a much larger climate impact - but then he was saying how they break down much more and you "see them broken down all along the road side every time you drive" - What??!!
We need to be objective with our reasons for people to choose something other than petrol/diesel SUVs, otherwise our genuine climate related arguments could be ignored

Its not unfair its based on easily accessed information - one example being: https://enginepatrol.com/range-rover-be ... rst-years/

I drive an EV6 and a Toyota RAV 2.2 ltr diesel which is my main towing vehicle (I do tow with the EV6 as well) and I haven't claimed to be anti one thing or another, all I have said is in my opinion based on personal experience and market research the LR isn't the best car for my £ and I couldn't with a clear conscience advocate buying one in any situation other than if someone came to me and said " I NEEEEEED A Land Rover in my life just because I want the badge......... which one is best" Then I would suck my teeth and go and do some more in depth research and advise them, but I would still probably also try and get them to consider other large diesel SUV alternatives based on reliability quality finish and price.

As for Robert L - yes he does bash SUV's but its all linked back to auditable facts such as environmental impact, reliability, cost to own, etc etc so you may not like the message for whatever your personal conscious and unconscious biases determine but the facts still remain the facts.

If you wanted to base the discussion on pure environmental principles then we should all be walking or cycling and no one should own a car or take flights etc but thats not often postulated as its too big a step for most folk to accept (me included).

Moxi

Sorry Moxi, I was meaning to say that if you list 3 disadvantages which are objectively true - eg. reliability, fuel cost, service costs on the account of reliabilty - but then add a 4th one which is questionable - "noisy, invasive engine noise in the cabin" - given that Rangerovers are renowned for their comfort, opulence, luxury.
I feel that it risks people throwing the baby out with the bath water and ignoring the 3 absolutely true disadvantages.

BTW, not sure about the link you posted, it states on the front page:
"JD Power has provided the Range Rover with above-average ratings. In 2022, this vehicle received a consumer score of 76 out of 100, with great individual ratings for “quality & reliability” and “driving experience,” at 80 and 84 (out of 100), respectively."

Richbee, I tried to gave a link to a fair and equitable assessment of the Range rover based on drivers as well as consumer organisation data, I didnt want to pick only negative points, hence this link giving a multitude of opinions over the many years that its been in production. Yes its been "good" from 2022 onwards, actually its been ok since 2019 and the majority of owners swear by them (but then most owners either love or hate their cars) I also noted that we all have an opinion and its personal.

My personal experience is that compared with other luxury cars its noisy in the cab, maybe the ones I have driven in the past were the "unlucky" odd ones but from my experience they are no quieter than other high end SUV's which come in a a lower price on the windscreen, again that's my personal view and its really ok if you don't agree and have a different experience-that is after all what makes us all individual.

If we are comparing end point SUV's then my personal favourites are my current RAV 2.2 the long wheel base shogun 3.2 and if I could afford to fuel it the ubiquitous Landcruiser 2.7. I wouldn't touch a land rover discovery as I consider that to be a real dog, but perversely I would in an instant happily own a 2A light weight for the sheer hell of it despite it being a cow to drive, maintain and have a very noisy cab

All that said and feeling like we are hijacking poor Dans thread I will "park" my SUV comments and "steer" clear of further comment

Moxi

[Moxi]

every banker needs a Range Rover -image matters. They would drive around in the worst car if that was the image. keep up.

I thought bankers drove Merc's and Stockbrokers drove Range Rovers, still I could be wrong all my knowledge is based on Guy Richie films.

Moxi

[richbee]

Its not unfair its based on easily accessed information - one example being: https://enginepatrol.com/range-rover-be ... rst-years/

I drive an EV6 and a Toyota RAV 2.2 ltr diesel which is my main towing vehicle (I do tow with the EV6 as well) and I haven't claimed to be anti one thing or another, all I have said is in my opinion based on personal experience and market research the LR isn't the best car for my £ and I couldn't with a clear conscience advocate buying one in any situation other than if someone came to me and said " I NEEEEEED A Land Rover in my life just because I want the badge......... which one is best" Then I would suck my teeth and go and do some more in depth research and advise them, but I would still probably also try and get them to consider other large diesel SUV alternatives based on reliability quality finish and price.

As for Robert L - yes he does bash SUV's but its all linked back to auditable facts such as environmental impact, reliability, cost to own, etc etc so you may not like the message for whatever your personal conscious and unconscious biases determine but the facts still remain the facts.

If you wanted to base the discussion on pure environmental principles then we should all be walking or cycling and no one should own a car or take flights etc but thats not often postulated as its too big a step for most folk to accept (me included).

Moxi

Sorry Moxi, I was meaning to say that if you list 3 disadvantages which are objectively true - eg. reliability, fuel cost, service costs on the account of reliabilty - but then add a 4th one which is questionable - "noisy, invasive engine noise in the cabin" - given that Rangerovers are renowned for their comfort, opulence, luxury.
I feel that it risks people throwing the baby out with the bath water and ignoring the 3 absolutely true disadvantages.

BTW, not sure about the link you posted, it states on the front page:
"JD Power has provided the Range Rover with above-average ratings. In 2022, this vehicle received a consumer score of 76 out of 100, with great individual ratings for “quality & reliability” and “driving experience,” at 80 and 84 (out of 100), respectively."

Richbee, I tried to gave a link to a fair and equitable assessment of the Range rover based on drivers as well as consumer organisation data, I didnt want to pick only negative points, hence this link giving a multitude of opinions over the many years that its been in production. Yes its been "good" from 2022 onwards, actually its been ok since 2019 and the majority of owners swear by them (but then most owners either love or hate their cars) I also noted that we all have an opinion and its personal.

My personal experience is that compared with other luxury cars its noisy in the cab, maybe the ones I have driven in the past were the "unlucky" odd ones but from my experience they are no quieter than other high end SUV's which come in a a lower price on the windscreen, again that's my personal view and its really ok if you don't agree and have a different experience-that is after all what makes us all individual.

If we are comparing end point SUV's then my personal favourites are my current RAV 2.2 the long wheel base shogun 3.2 and if I could afford to fuel it the ubiquitous Landcruiser 2.7. I wouldn't touch a land rover discovery as I consider that to be a real dog, but perversely I would in an instant happily own a 2A light weight for the sheer hell of it despite it being a cow to drive, maintain and have a very noisy cab

All that said and feeling like we are hijacking poor Dans thread I will "park" my SUV comments and "steer" clear of further comment

Moxi

Thanks Moxi - all fair points.
Agreed we should probably stop hijacking the thread.

It's interesting to see how people maybe view their green priorities differently. The couple in question have picked solar & battery & heat pump to change, but not their vehicle - is that because it's a staged change - they will go EV in a couple of years, or they think they've done enough already - or the feeling that changing the SUV is a step too far... who knows

I was reading the latest Sunsynk magazine today, which seems to be aimed at installers - it had a couple of pages about how to sell solar systems to people with different agendas - the green converts who are interested mainly in carbon reduction, or those who are looking at energy security or those for whom it is a cost saving issue - or probably like most of us, a bit of a mixture....

[Moxi]

Agreed,

All my green credentials are primarily about cutting costs and making life as comfortable for my family as I can, then comes educating the kids about living better with a lighter foot print. Everyone see's the world through their own senses and experience overlay.

Moxi