Panel recycling article

[Joeboy]

https://reneweconomy.com.au/treasure-no ... first-use/

Wondering if anyone with older systems has logged much in the way of generation degradation? I assume the panels going offshore to Africa & Pacific regions are for reuse as viable power generation and not landfill in the first instance? Looks like it, so that's a positive.

It does make me wonder at what point other than broken is a panel of no use? I had read that the old anticipated 20yr lifespan of a panel is now closer to 30yr.

[Mart]

Only anecdotal Joeboy, but after ~13yrs I haven't noticed any degradation at all, which I find extremely surprising, but I assume in the UK it will be less.

Obviously annual gen varies with weather, but a drop of 5% would be absolutely obvious as a trend, and I suspect I'd notice a drop of 2%, which I can't see.

I do recall an article about PV life proving to be longer than expected from a decade ago, Germany based article I think, suggesting that we might 'now' (10 yrs ago) be installing PV with a 50yr useable life, but that we wouldn't really know for another 20-30yrs (another 10-20yrs from now?)

Perhaps the impact of efficiency improvements is the bigger test for first life roles, such as my choice to replace some 13yr old panels with new ones. That's an increase from 235Wp to ~400Wp (440Wp panels but approx 10% larger), so roughly +70%.

In 10yrs time, if Silicon Perovskite is successfully developed, then it may be worth another upgrade for current PV installs (say 22% panels displaced by 30-35% panels). Only after that, if things settle down, might installs remain in place for many decades?


I'm waffling now, but even for existing PV farms that can't easily upgrade their transmission connections, then the falling cost of storage* might allow for panel upgrades if co-located, without any significant clipping of generation.

*We seem to be reaching the time that the PV and on-shore wind industries have talked about for 5yrs+, where the addition of storage to existing RE sites could be economically viable. The point the industries made in the past, was that there was little to no additional cost of adding storage at a later date, v's during the RE build out, so they were waiting and watching for the right prices/time.

[Joeboy]

Out of interest Mart, what did you do with your old panels? My oldest system is 7 years now and I've not seen any degradation. It has always hit 4.85kW output in optimal conditions and still does.

I'd be interested to see the sums for the working model on solar farms. How much they lose in the article quoted 8yrs panel life? Are the margins that tight that a couple of percent degradation make the difference. Interest piqued via my own second hand panel playing and Ripple installing what is it
70,000 panels. Can't even begin to get my head around a volume like that!

[Stig]

I have noticed a drop in generation but it's partly due to autumn/winter shading from a big lime tree (not mine) growing. There is also a slight drop in the summer but that's likely because I've never cleaned the panels properly in the 12+ years they've been up and I can see lichen on the edges of them at least.

Anyone used the services of a solar panel cleaning specialist? I did get a window cleaning company to have a go but their extendible pole brush wasn't doing the job so they refunded my money.

[HML]

I bought 40 BP solar panels in 2013. Brought them here in 2019 and measured Isc and Vsc with no apparent reduction after 6 years.

There is still no apparent reduction in output at 11 years old.

Output from 4 panels June 2020, peak output 1160W (1120W nominal output.)


Output from the same system June 2024, peak output 1226W.

[Mart]

Out of interest Mart, what did you do with your old panels? My oldest system is 7 years now and I've not seen any degradation. It has always hit 4.85kW output in optimal conditions and still does.

I'd be interested to see the sums for the working model on solar farms. How much they lose in the article quoted 8yrs panel life? Are the margins that tight that a couple of percent degradation make the difference. Interest piqued via my own second hand panel playing and Ripple installing what is it
70,000 panels. Can't even begin to get my head around a volume like that!

Hiya mate. Old panels still in shed, but a friend (nearby) is interested in having them as a throw together garden PV system after I mentioned the storage batteries you can buy (like Ecoflow, Bluetti etc). The idea being that you can plug a string of panels straight in, and the device has multiple ports for drawing power, even 3pin plugs. So it would power devices, without being grid tied.

Only a thought, but could work well.

As the article is Aus based I assume they will see higher degradtion. What I've read over the years seems to suggest perhaps 0.4% pa degradation*, but more in sunnier climes, and less in ..... well ...... the UK! So Aus and southern US may see 1%pa, but don't quote me on any of this.

My thoughts on updating solar farm panels isn't so much the small(ish) degradation, but more the significant increase in panel efficiency, combined with very low prices. As a package that may swing things in favour of an upgrade, after what is actually a relatively short time. The bonus being that storage deployments, which may be worthwhile now anyway, would also help. Quite the virtuous circle.

*NREL report from a decade ago studied a wide range of panels in use, installed before and after the year 2000. It found around 0.8%pa degradation on average, but for post 2000 mono-silicon installs, it was more like 0.4%. So clearly an improvement as technology improves, but I suppose there could also be an (acceptable) fall in quality due to cheaper mass production. Not saying this has happened, in fact it doesn't seem to have, but if you are paying $100 for a more powerful panel than one that cost $400 a decade ago, then maybe a higher degradation rate would be acceptable?

Whatever the reality is, degradation does seem to be of far less significance than expected, even hoped.

[Marcus]

My oldest dated panels are some thin film type unisolar with polycarbonate instead of glass:-





The last time i checked before one got damaged last year they were still producing to their rating, (AFAIK given i don't have a 'standard' sumny day to test with) and they still produce something near even with the damage and water ingress.

These might be older ( the ones on the right in the pic) and are more like the standard solar panel you're familiar with, and the last time i cleaned and checked (>5yrs ago) they were still producing to spec:-





The middle of the serial no. Might suggest 03/98 , maybe?

[Joeboy]

I've been seeing those inverter/battery portable set ups just beginning to trickle in over here on the supermarket fliers.

Seem like a great way to jump a tech level.if you so wish.

If the next Hoymiles micro won't play.nice with grid over here I'll likely default to one of those.

[Saladin]

I've not noticed anything in the way of degradation I stopped paying as close attention to system optimisation after I went from 2kW to 9.5kW.
I did keep a very close eye on it for the few years I lived on 150W.
It's very hard to measure the input to benchmark a test.
I've two real old 60Volters that are regularly 10% overspec and always have been

I expect the manufacturer warranty is a posterior covering clause to mitigate against claims made due to hotspotting from poor installs recurring shadows or too shallow angles (<15°) with dirt accumulation in the corners.

Be careful with those "solar generator" setups. The proprietary flexible panels they bundle with them have zero UV stabilisation and will yeallow and become brittle after 5 or so years.

I believe Ecoflow accepts a 60volt panel making is compatible with normal 30 and 36 cell panels

[greentangerine]

This system was installed in January 2010 - haven't really noticed any degradation but of course the weather differs every year.