ASHP & triple glazing

[Moxi]

JB, how controllable are the storage heaters you have? Can you control their output quite accurately ? If so you can reduce their heat output to emulate the heat output you would get from a radiator of a given size. You might find out that your existing rads are more than sufficient for the job! especially after the 3g is fitted.

Theres a great radiator / flow temp emulator resources on here somewhere that is fab for experimenting on a room to room basis - I will try to find it

The GCH here is still in low flow mode and we are inching towards a years worth of real time heating data to use for determining our ASHP size, DHW set at approx 42degrees C and the heating is down at 36 degrees C, this week in the cold snap we have still found the radiators capable of lifting the room temperature up to 21 degrees within an hour even with the outside temps down to 11 degrees. Our average on the coast seems to hang around 4 degrees C in December and January according to national statistics on the degree day site so I am very hopeful that we will only need to double up a couple of radiators rather than add any - we only have 3 off 800x 600 singles upstairs and 3 off 1200 x 600 doubles downstairs plus a fancy towel rad in the bathroom.

Moxi

Mr Gus posted the original here : https://camelot-forum.co.uk/phpBB3/view ... ?f=17&t=38

and the heating simulator is here https://heatpumps.co.uk/heating-simulat ... radiators/

apologies for the double post but I hit quote instead of edit

[Joeboy]

Thanks guys, good ideas.

Had a quick look and 01/07/23 to 30/06/24 we bought 14,713kWh of power from grid.

At 3.5miles per kWh and 12,000 miles in EV that drops to 11,285kWh to the home.

I'll knock 15% of that figure off for Winter running, the home entertainment, lights & cooking, power tools etc and we are at 9,592kWh bought from grid.

There's maybe 500kWh free energy days when i abused the hell out of free energy days. So we can knock it down to 9,000kWh to run the home heating and HWT on a 1:1 basis.

I can't think of anything else to knock off, that seems a reasonable picture of what it costs to run the home in its current mode? Although there have been some more panel additions this year (11) they don't really count as not effective when i really need them.

If I could achieve a SCOP of 3.5 on the ASHP that would put me down to about 2,600kWh pa bough to heat the home and water (with WBS help), I'd then be able to back the WBS a fair bit. Hmmn, that's nuts!

Then if we add in the triple glazing... Does that look even close to accurate? Or do I need a bit of ?

[Joeboy]

JB, how controllable are the storage heaters you have? Can you control their output quite accurately ? If so you can reduce their heat output to emulate the heat output you would get from a radiator of a given size. You might find out that your existing rads are more than sufficient for the job! especially after the 3g is fitted.

Theres a great radiator / flow temp emulator resources on here somewhere that is fab for experimenting on a room to room basis - I will try to find it

The GCH here is still in low flow mode and we are inching towards a years worth of real time heating data to use for determining our ASHP size, DHW set at approx 42degrees C and the heating is down at 36 degrees C, this week in the cold snap we have still found the radiators capable of lifting the room temperature up to 21 degrees within an hour even with the outside temps down to 11 degrees. Our average on the coast seems to hang around 4 degrees C in December and January according to national statistics on the degree day site so I am very hopeful that we will only need to double up a couple of radiators rather than add any - we only have 3 off 800x 600 singles upstairs and 3 off 1200 x 600 doubles downstairs plus a fancy towel rad in the bathroom.

Moxi

Mr Gus posted the original here : https://camelot-forum.co.uk/phpBB3/view ... ?f=17&t=38

and the heating simulator is here https://heatpumps.co.uk/heating-simulat ... radiators/

apologies for the double post but I hit quote instead of edit

Thanks Moxi, appreciated.

[Joeboy]

Oh ya dancer, gas meter removal request mail just sent to Octopus!

List of questions to ASHP surveyor for Monday. Feel free to add. much appreciated.

1. How long in industry & work background?


2. How long has company been operating?


3.What system temp are you designing for?


4.What SCOP are you hoping to achieve with the design?


5.Shall we flush the existing system?


6.Shall we remove the zoning ( currently two zones)?


7.Heat loss calculation (when)?


8.The OSO hot water cylinder in loft, fit for purpose?


9.Monitoring software as per Iain please?


10. Weather compensating facility?


11.Whereabouts in home for thermostat?


12. Which pipe insulation?


13. Best spec TRV’s to operate with ASHP?


14. Site for external unit, do we need a pad?


15. Rad upgrades, where?


16. Plan to route pipes to loft space?


17. Tiles for roof for existing gas flue?


18. Process for grant from this point forward?


19. Further insulation recommendations?

I'm off for a beer! Heid's minced.

[Bugtownboy]

The only thing, Joe, and I’ve no experience, is does the installation comply with any Scottish planning/installation rules/laws ?

[Joeboy]

The only thing, Joe, and I’ve no experience, is does the installation comply with any Scottish planning/installation rules/laws ?

Good question I'll ask on Monday.

[Joeboy]

Glassworx came in at £31,199 this evening...

[Fintray]

Oh ya dancer, gas meter removal request mail just sent to Octopus!

List of questions to ASHP surveyor for Monday. Feel free to add. much appreciated.

1. How long in industry & work background?


2. How long has company been operating?


3.What system temp are you designing for?


4.What SCOP are you hoping to achieve with the design?
Hopefully in the same region as mine - current SCOP 4.55

5.Shall we flush the existing system?
They power flushed the whole system on completion of installation

6.Shall we remove the zoning ( currently two zones)?
Was recommended to have no zoning and let the heat pump do its thing

7.Heat loss calculation (when)?


8.The OSO hot water cylinder in loft, fit for purpose?
I just got them to fit a new tank as wanted a larger one

9.Monitoring software as per Iain please?


10. Weather compensating facility?
Weather compensation is built into the controller

11.Whereabouts in home for thermostat?
If you spec the Sensocomfort control you can site it where you want as it is wireless. You can have the control strategy as fully temperature controlled, weather compensation or a mix of the 2 but the recommendation is for weather compensation only

12. Which pipe insulation?
Armaflex was fitted to all primary pipework and pipes at HWC

13. Best spec TRV’s to operate with ASHP?
Might be a bit of a moot point as you don't really want TRV's shutting down and reducing the flow through the heat pump. I had asked if the mixing valve should be left on our underfloor manifold and Robbie (the surveyor and owner of the business) said to remove it and right enough there is no need for it

14. Site for external unit, do we need a pad?

I built mine to this spec to keep costs down

15. Rad upgrades, where?


16. Plan to route pipes to loft space?


17. Tiles for roof for existing gas flue?


18. Process for grant from this point forward?


19. Further insulation recommendations?

I'm off for a beer! Heid's minced.

[AGT]

Point 13. More efficient to not have trv and have one big zone controlled by the heat pump

[Joeboy]

Oh ya dancer, gas meter removal request mail just sent to Octopus!

List of questions to ASHP surveyor for Monday. Feel free to add. much appreciated.

1. How long in industry & work background?


2. How long has company been operating?


3.What system temp are you designing for?


4.What SCOP are you hoping to achieve with the design?
Hopefully in the same region as mine - current SCOP 4.55

5.Shall we flush the existing system?
They power flushed the whole system on completion of installation

6.Shall we remove the zoning ( currently two zones)?
Was recommended to have no zoning and let the heat pump do its thing

7.Heat loss calculation (when)?


8.The OSO hot water cylinder in loft, fit for purpose?
I just got them to fit a new tank as wanted a larger one

9.Monitoring software as per Iain please?


10. Weather compensating facility?
Weather compensation is built into the controller

11.Whereabouts in home for thermostat?
If you spec the Sensocomfort control you can site it where you want as it is wireless. You can have the control strategy as fully temperature controlled, weather compensation or a mix of the 2 but the recommendation is for weather compensation only

12. Which pipe insulation?
Armaflex was fitted to all primary pipework and pipes at HWC

13. Best spec TRV’s to operate with ASHP?
Might be a bit of a moot point as you don't really want TRV's shutting down and reducing the flow through the heat pump. I had asked if the mixing valve should be left on our underfloor manifold and Robbie (the surveyor and owner of the business) said to remove it and right enough there is no need for it

14. Site for external unit, do we need a pad?

I built mine to this spec to keep costs down

15. Rad upgrades, where?


16. Plan to route pipes to loft space?


17. Tiles for roof for existing gas flue?


18. Process for grant from this point forward?


19. Further insulation recommendations?

I'm off for a beer! Heid's minced.

Thanks Iain & agt. These pointers will get me a lot further down the road than I would have on my own. Cheers!

Watching the heat geek.videos today the penny dropped about low & slow, bigger emitter area the better. I get it now.

Will watch more tomorrow and parse the guidance given, thanks again. I'm interested in whether they'll advise a single stack or double external unit as it seems a marginal call. A part of me still sees it (kind of) as a big magic box even though we have one over in Turkey. I guess my mind is pegged to 0deg C as being low. Not in this game apparently.