Fantasy, pure and simple.

[NoraBatty]

I don't know where you got that information. Can I respectfully suggest you be more careful in future, otherwise you risk looking foolish.

From the interweb, news and a fair bit of reading.
Granted in my rant i was not 100% accurate, else it would have taken 4 hours to write and get factual numbers etc. And i would have included citations, but the premise is the same.

Employee safety is a serious issue at his companies, deaths have ensued, his cars catch fire, ram emergency response vehicles, fall apart, and have killed people.
There are plans to repeal the car crash reporting which will directly and positively impact tesla.
His starship thrust size, deadline, and payload decreased. from a very high number to a banana,
He has turned off starlink, and charges ukraine to use it
And has been given billions in taxpayer money.
And is under numerous federal investigations.

I also heard recently that he is the only CEO of a company with a defense contract, that does not have clearance. Havent looked into that one though. His open and public drug use should be enough to make that valid on its own.

[Stinsy]

I don't know where you got that information. Can I respectfully suggest you be more careful in future, otherwise you risk looking foolish.

From the interweb, news and a fair bit of reading.
Granted in my rant i was not 100% accurate, else it would have taken 4 hours to write and get factual numbers etc. And i would have included citations, but the premise is the same.

Employee safety is a serious issue at his companies, deaths have ensued, his cars catch fire, ram emergency response vehicles, fall apart, and have killed people.
There are plans to repeal the car crash reporting which will directly and positively impact tesla.
His starship thrust size, deadline, and payload decreased. from a very high number to a banana,
He has turned off starlink, and charges ukraine to use it
And has been given billions in taxpayer money.
And is under numerous federal investigations.

I also heard recently that he is the only CEO of a company with a defense contract, that does not have clearance. Havent looked into that one though. His open and public drug use should be enough to make that valid on its own.

My previous statement stands.

Wherever you’re getting your information, stop.

[resybaby]

Not to keen on him then Nora?

Is there still doubt?
was i not obvious enough

Far far to obvious imv.

[NoraBatty]

I don't know where you got that information. Can I respectfully suggest you be more careful in future, otherwise you risk looking foolish.

From the interweb, news and a fair bit of reading.
Granted in my rant i was not 100% accurate, else it would have taken 4 hours to write and get factual numbers etc. And i would have included citations, but the premise is the same.

Employee safety is a serious issue at his companies, deaths have ensued, his cars catch fire, ram emergency response vehicles, fall apart, and have killed people.
There are plans to repeal the car crash reporting which will directly and positively impact tesla.
His starship thrust size, deadline, and payload decreased. from a very high number to a banana,
He has turned off starlink, and charges ukraine to use it
And has been given billions in taxpayer money.
And is under numerous federal investigations.

I also heard recently that he is the only CEO of a company with a defense contract, that does not have clearance. Havent looked into that one though. His open and public drug use should be enough to make that valid on its own.

My previous statement stands.

Wherever you’re getting your information, stop.

Well i will agree to disagree with you on that.
Plenty of information on all of it to look up and read, including Musks own news and PR briefings.
Federal filings, court filings, senate hearings, accident reporting and so on.

[Stinsy]

From the interweb, news and a fair bit of reading.
Granted in my rant i was not 100% accurate, else it would have taken 4 hours to write and get factual numbers etc. And i would have included citations, but the premise is the same.

Employee safety is a serious issue at his companies, deaths have ensued, his cars catch fire, ram emergency response vehicles, fall apart, and have killed people.
There are plans to repeal the car crash reporting which will directly and positively impact tesla.
His starship thrust size, deadline, and payload decreased. from a very high number to a banana,
He has turned off starlink, and charges ukraine to use it
And has been given billions in taxpayer money.
And is under numerous federal investigations.

I also heard recently that he is the only CEO of a company with a defense contract, that does not have clearance. Havent looked into that one though. His open and public drug use should be enough to make that valid on its own.

My previous statement stands.

Wherever you’re getting your information, stop.

Well i will agree to disagree with you on that.
Plenty of information on all of it to look up and read, including Musks own news and PR briefings.
Federal filings, court filings, senate hearings, accident reporting and so on.

There is no “agreeing to disagree”. I’m no fan of Tesla cars or Musk. He’s an easy guy to criticise and the cars too. However what you’ve written is complete and utter nonsense. You have read a load of politically-motivated rubbish online and swallowed it whole.

As I say: wherever you read that crap, stop. And please take more care in future.

[NoraBatty]

There is no “agreeing to disagree”. I’m no fan of Tesla cars or Musk. He’s an easy guy to criticise and the cars too. However what you’ve written is complete and utter nonsense. You have read a load of politically-motivated rubbish online and swallowed it whole.

As I say: wherever you read that crap, stop. And please take more care in future.

Look up his federal investigations for yourself Stinsy.
Both under Trumps presidency and Bidens.
Or the accident statistics and the autopilot errors of his cars, state by state.
Or the OSHA reports for employee accidents regarding health and safety violations at his facilities.
Or the Republican held houses committee findings about what he has done with starlink and defense contracts.

All bi partisan and federally available information.
Then look at the words that come out of his own mouth and the lawsuits he has filed, in order to remove safeguards put in place for tech that is not refined enough to be safe for the public.

None of that is politically swayed one side or the other.

Disagree all you like.
The information is there to be read.

[Stinsy]

There is no “agreeing to disagree”. I’m no fan of Tesla cars or Musk. He’s an easy guy to criticise and the cars too. However what you’ve written is complete and utter nonsense. You have read a load of politically-motivated rubbish online and swallowed it whole.

As I say: wherever you read that crap, stop. And please take more care in future.

Look up his federal investigations for yourself Stinsy.
Both under Trumps presidency and Bidens.
Or the accident statistics and the autopilot errors of his cars, state by state.
Or the OSHA reports for employee accidents regarding health and safety violations at his facilities.
Or the Republican held houses committee findings about what he has done with starlink and defense contracts.

All bi partisan and federally available information.
Then look at the words that come out of his own mouth and the lawsuits he has filed, in order to remove safeguards put in place for tech that is not refined enough to be safe for the public.

None of that is politically swayed one side or the other.

Disagree all you like.
The information is there to be read.

All of those claims are misrepresentations. You are consuming information from a source that is deceiving you.

Sure Teslas crash, less frequently than other cars but not zero. Anyone trying to convince you that Teslas are less safe than other cars is lying to you.

Tesla factories employ a vast number of people, and accidents have happened. Again less than you might expect given the scale, but non-zero. Anyone trying to represent Tesla factories as being unsafe is lying to you.

There have been a whole load of spurious “investigations” into Musk. These have made good money for the lawyers involved, and some of the lawyers attacking Musk have demanded to be paid in Tesla shares, but nothing of substance has been proven.

PLEASE PLEASE stop believing this nonsense. The claims you’ve made in this thread are frankly stupid. And you don’t look very good for repeating them. Find more reliable sources of information.

Conversation over.

[NoraBatty]

All makes of cars crash. Fact of life.
Mechanical malfunctions or driver error.

I have not claimed Teslas are not safe cars.

I have stated that under musks regime they have declined in quality to the point where recalls are occurring much more frequently.

The crashes i am talking about, as you are well aware, are for auto pilot tech that is not adequately developed, or fit, to be on the roads.

An auto pilot that can cross lanes of traffic to hit emergency vehicles head on, because it cannot recognise what they are, is a danger and should not be on the road.
Deaths have occurred due to this inadequate technology being in use.
The figures are there to look at.

I do not think using open roads for technology that is currently not safe or up to scratch and still under development, should ever be allowed, especially when you are doing so with the lives of the public, either by prematurely selling to the users, or affecting the lives of the innocent bystanders caught up when it goes wrong.
Again, the accident and death figures for these vehicles is openly available.

Removing the ability to access such information, by removing the need for accident reporting, will not make these figures disappear. Accident and death figures will continue to grow, only, outside of any scrutiny at all.
Where does the incentive then lie for actually developing the technology to the safety standard you would expect.
Nowhere.
Because no one is aware there are issues or how deep the issues go.

No one has deceived me into that opinion. It is mine, based on facts from raw data, current law and a basic understanding of corporate greed always coming above standards.

All factories have incidents.
All employees and employers, are required to stick to H&S standards.
If you looked at the OSHA figures, or the OSHA infractions, and compared them to other companies, you would know that teslas factory accident rate is 3 times higher than any other similar company, even with employee number differences taken into account.

You would know warrants for information and safety records have been ignored, OSHA compliances falsified, that there are missing and incomplete injury reports, and a vast many OSHA fines have been paid. That is only in one of Musks companies.

What do you think will happen when and if the guts of OSHA are dismantled by Musk et al because safety regulations are stifling innovation?

I do not need someone to "deceive" me to read and form my own opinion from raw data, taken direct from federal government sites, and know that $3 trillion in savings, can only come from certain areas of public spending, such as workers rights, safety and environment, and medical care.

If you know of a more trustworthy place to obtain raw data, than the source, which in each case is the Federal government of the USA, then by all means, share it.

You should however, be careful in assuming that someones opinion has been deceived by some kind of rabid political shadow person, especially if you have not looked at the actual information at source, and used your own brain to form an opinion for yourself.

Lastly, i do not care if you think i am stupid, or if you think I do not "look good".
My opinion is my own, and no amount of ridicule or belittling can remove the fact i have as much right to my opinion, as you do yours.

[Saladin]

Lastly, i do not care if you think i am stupid, or if you think I do not "look good".

Quite the opposite from where I'm standing.



Good philosophy none-the-less.

[Stinsy]

All makes of cars crash. Fact of life.
Mechanical malfunctions or driver error.

I have not claimed Teslas are not safe cars.

I have stated that under musks regime they have declined in quality to the point where recalls are occurring much more frequently.

The crashes i am talking about, as you are well aware, are for auto pilot tech that is not adequately developed, or fit, to be on the roads.

An auto pilot that can cross lanes of traffic to hit emergency vehicles head on, because it cannot recognise what they are, is a danger and should not be on the road.
Deaths have occurred due to this inadequate technology being in use.
The figures are there to look at.

I do not think using open roads for technology that is currently not safe or up to scratch and still under development, should ever be allowed, especially when you are doing so with the lives of the public, either by prematurely selling to the users, or affecting the lives of the innocent bystanders caught up when it goes wrong.
Again, the accident and death figures for these vehicles is openly available.

Removing the ability to access such information, by removing the need for accident reporting, will not make these figures disappear. Accident and death figures will continue to grow, only, outside of any scrutiny at all.
Where does the incentive then lie for actually developing the technology to the safety standard you would expect.
Nowhere.
Because no one is aware there are issues or how deep the issues go.

No one has deceived me into that opinion. It is mine, based on facts from raw data, current law and a basic understanding of corporate greed always coming above standards.

All factories have incidents.
All employees and employers, are required to stick to H&S standards.
If you looked at the OSHA figures, or the OSHA infractions, and compared them to other companies, you would know that teslas factory accident rate is 3 times higher than any other similar company, even with employee number differences taken into account.

You would know warrants for information and safety records have been ignored, OSHA compliances falsified, that there are missing and incomplete injury reports, and a vast many OSHA fines have been paid. That is only in one of Musks companies.

What do you think will happen when and if the guts of OSHA are dismantled by Musk et al because safety regulations are stifling innovation?

I do not need someone to "deceive" me to read and form my own opinion from raw data, taken direct from federal government sites, and know that $3 trillion in savings, can only come from certain areas of public spending, such as workers rights, safety and environment, and medical care.

If you know of a more trustworthy place to obtain raw data, than the source, which in each case is the Federal government of the USA, then by all means, share it.

You should however, be careful in assuming that someones opinion has been deceived by some kind of rabid political shadow person, especially if you have not looked at the actual information at source, and used your own brain to form an opinion for yourself.

Lastly, i do not care if you think i am stupid, or if you think I do not "look good".
My opinion is my own, and no amount of ridicule or belittling can remove the fact i have as much right to my opinion, as you do yours.

I didn’t read all that.

Please heed my advice!