"Net Billing" in MA

[Joeboy]

This viewpoint cannot be a fair representation for the cohort of renters who are not allowed to invest in (household) solar.

Exactly what i was going to say.
Or those who live in flats, or leasehold properties where such is impossible or forbidden.
Or those who either live with or were forced onto prepay meters.

It isnt so much that solar panels are cheap right now. And even that is debatable for people on the lowest incomes.
A solar panel with no inverter is as much use as a choclate teapot.
It may be £55 for the cheapest panel, but delivery is then added. And that does no good when you need a spark to fit and register an inverter to make the thing work in the first place.

You also only see the benefit of solar with no battery if you are using power when it is day time. Which is when the majority of people are in work.

I'll say again, balcony solar is an option. My personal skint scenario would be an Enphase M215 micro inverter and a 250W panel. I'd wait & watch the market until I saw them at the right secondhand price point (i've done it before)! The enphase gets delivered, I wait for a panel local and go on my bike to collect it or just walk. I hook them up in the garden on a couple of sawn pallets I got for free (back out on the4 bike again). I tag it back to the AC in my house and go to work. The panel takes care of part background load while i work. Of course there are thousands of scenarios when this doesn't work. Maybe instead i buy a 100W folding solar panel with 5V output and stick it in a window 4 floors up? Or maybe I move home?

Apathy is a choice as are all the excuses not to. Dangerous ground that I avoid like the plague. I don't believe in sitting waiting for permission from another walking bag of calcium & water. See the goal, make the path towards it. Get the job done.

As to poor v's rich? I give as much of a hoot for the poor as they do for me. In saying that, when in Africa a week or so ago I identified the workers who would go that extra wee bit, some for pride of job and some in hope for a tip. I appreciate that and went around giving every person who had done that wee bit extra a bung. A few quid that meant nothing to me in the greater scheme but I was hugged, hand shaken, huge smiles. My personal fave was the gardener, nobody bungs the gardener, they're just there getting it done, keeping it immaculate.

I bunged the gardener, what a look of surprise! In this small way I hope to encourage a good work attitude. Who knows where it will end up?

I encourage this in my children too. Work hard, take responsibility for your actions, show gratitude, don't let anyone take a liberty and don't take a liberty, don't try, do. Daughter in particular didn't like this and says i'm too harsh (she has a point). The thing is though, when push comes to shove and it matters in her life guess which behavior emerges and she goes forward a winner? No1 son? Its in the bone.

Mike, any photos of your setup? Did you allude to having hydro where you are?

[NoraBatty]

Your micro inverter route is also not for everyone, on top of those who dont fit the niche of having a garden or a balcony or other mechanism, as said Joe.
Not everyone has the knowledge to wire a plug and be able to use an inverter safely, in such a manner with unknown dodgy old wiring and so on.
Even if they did, it is still a very grey area of the law is it not?

My other half used to work in the health sector. The amount of people he saw that were so illiterate they struggled to write their name even 5 years ago, would shock most.
Being able to come on sites like this and share knowledge with others in writing, is a skill that we all just assume others have. Just as we assume others are mentally or physically capable of a level of diy, or finding extra money to do any of this on very tight budgets.

[Joeboy]

Your micro inverter route is also not for everyone, on top of those who dont fit the niche of having a garden or a balcony or other mechanism, as said Joe.
Not everyone has the knowledge to wire a plug and be able to use an inverter safely, in such a manner with unknown dodgy old wiring and so on.
Even if they did, it is still a very grey area of the law is it not?

My other half used to work in the health sector. The amount of people he saw that were so illiterate they struggled to write their name even 5 years ago, would shock most.
Being able to come on sites like this and share knowledge with others in writing, is a skill that we all just assume others have. Just as we assume others are mentally or physically capable of a level of diy, or finding extra money to do any of this on very tight budgets.

Sorry Nora, that's life and it shakes out different for all. What to do?

[Stinsy]

This viewpoint cannot be a fair representation for the cohort of renters who are not allowed to invest in (household) solar.

I have some rental properties. None of my tenants need to rent from me. A mortgage payment would be way cheaper than paying rent. But that’d involve saving for a deposit and having a clean credit history. We are back to delayed gratification again. Certainly ex-tenants have been consistent in running up bills with credit card and catalogue companies and not paying the tab. Sure there are some people who live in areas where “getting on the ladder” is unachievable given their circumstances. However not where I live, and not in most of the UK.

Also I’d not object to a tenant wishing to install solar.

You don’t do anyone any favours by pretending that their circumstances are not of their own making.

[Stinsy]

There are always winners & losers. The game is to identify the ground currently underfoot and work towards your group of choice and stay there.

This is the point exactly. I really like your analogy.

There are those who moan about how their situation is someone else’s fault and how they are in a “hopeless” situation. And there are those who understand the situation they’re in and do the best with what they have. It is amazing how quickly you can turn things around with the right mindset. One minute you’re paying £5 for a used smartplug or replacing halogen bulbs with LED. The next minute you’re sanding down and painting some furniture to flip for £200 profit. Then you realise your 2-year-old smartphone still works fine and you can put the monthly payments* towards something else that will either save you money or make you money.

* I found out recently that my Mrs cousin pays £70 a month for her smartphone. Not the tariff, that is separate, the finance agreement for the handset. She also has a private numberplate on her car. This same person lives entirely on government handouts and claims to be barely able to afford food!

[NoraBatty]

Sorry Nora, that's life and it shakes out different for all. What to do?

Yes it is life. And yes it is different for everyone.
That surely is the point.
Being in a position to help ourselves is not only through the hard graft put in, but also in having the ability to do it in the first place.

Not everyone has the luxury of health, or supportive parents to guide you in the right decisions at a very young age that pay off later in life, or go to a half decent school to get a half decent education.

Those tend to be the essentials to having a life that isnt on the breadline each month.
Sure there are exceptions to that, of people with awful childhoods or poor education who have found millions by the sheer amount of hard graft they have put in.
But the point originally made was that there are people out there, and probably more than most realise, who cant afford such things and never will be able to, so are caught in a perpetual loop of higher prices until they catch a break.

As an aside, i suffer from a debilitating health condition due to a head accident i had whilst working offshore. I manage to do as much as i can and push myself as hard as i can through sheer stubbornness.
I have no choice but to work from home now, and have carved a nich job for myself out as a freelancer because i cannot guarantee i will be well enough to work a shift or a normal working day.
You likely would never notice me struggling or even think there was anything wrong with me, because you would only ever see me on a good day.
What you wont see, are the days where just getting out of bed and being able to put pre prepared food to my mouth is a hurculean task.
One day i can gallavant around the country doing whatever. The next i literally have to be spoon fed by my other half as i am incapable of doing so myself.

Its all very well bunging an extra something to a gardener in africa who you see going the extra mile. It rewards hard work and thats great.
What you maybe werent aware of was the hurculean efforts done by those whos mere presence that day was the extra effort that the gardener, and the onlooker takes for granted.

[Mart]

Just for interest, this is an example of a system you can buy in Germany, 900Wp, upto 800W output (to meet the German rules for thses systems).

I appreciate these aren't 'legal' in the UK, as the PV has to be hardwired, or plugged into a socket on a dedicated circuit, but thought it interesting to see how cheap the possibilities are these days. But of course, only for those in a suitable situation, or able to build a small wall/ground mount.

900Wp Balcony Power Station €352

[Yuff]

There are always winners & losers. The game is to identify the ground currently underfoot and work towards your group of choice and stay there.

This is the point exactly. I really like your analogy.

There are those who moan about how their situation is someone else’s fault and how they are in a “hopeless” situation. And there are those who understand the situation they’re in and do the best with what they have. It is amazing how quickly you can turn things around with the right mindset. One minute you’re paying £5 for a used smartplug or replacing halogen bulbs with LED. The next minute you’re sanding down and painting some furniture to flip for £200 profit. Then you realise your 2-year-old smartphone still works fine and you can put the monthly payments* towards something else that will either save you money or make you money.

* I found out recently that my Mrs cousin pays £70 a month for her smartphone. Not the tariff, that is separate, the finance agreement for the handset. She also has a private numberplate on her car. This same person lives entirely on government handouts and claims to be barely able to afford food!

Don’t worry stinsy there are plenty worse in the ministry of justice milking the system, who’d like to be on a £130k a year, generous pension and signed off 2 weeks after taking the position because of stress on full pay……..5 years ago

[Joeboy]

Sorry Nora, that's life and it shakes out different for all. What to do?

Yes it is life. And yes it is different for everyone.
That surely is the point.
Being in a position to help ourselves is not only through the hard graft put in, but also in having the ability to do it in the first place.

Not everyone has the luxury of health, or supportive parents to guide you in the right decisions at a very young age that pay off later in life, or go to a half decent school to get a half decent education.

Those tend to be the essentials to having a life that isnt on the breadline each month.
Sure there are exceptions to that, of people with awful childhoods or poor education who have found millions by the sheer amount of hard graft they have put in.
But the point originally made was that there are people out there, and probably more than most realise, who cant afford such things and never will be able to, so are caught in a perpetual loop of higher prices until they catch a break.

As an aside, i suffer from a debilitating health condition due to a head accident i had whilst working offshore. I manage to do as much as i can and push myself as hard as i can through sheer stubbornness.
I have no choice but to work from home now, and have carved a nich job for myself out as a freelancer because i cannot guarantee i will be well enough to work a shift or a normal working day.
You likely would never notice me struggling or even think there was anything wrong with me, because you would only ever see me on a good day.
What you wont see, are the days where just getting out of bed and being able to put pre prepared food to my mouth is a hurculean task.
One day i can gallavant around the country doing whatever. The next i literally have to be spoon fed by my other half as i am incapable of doing so myself.

Its all very well bunging an extra something to a gardener in africa who you see going the extra mile. It rewards hard work and thats great.
What you maybe werent aware of was the hurculean efforts done by those whos mere presence that day was the extra effort that the gardener, and the onlooker takes for granted.

I bet you're glad you got that off your chest?

I used to say to my guys "you won't find fair in the periodic table so don't look for it here" You've turned a negative into a positive, keep doing that.

I won't pass comment on the social statements as each to their own.

[NoraBatty]

I bet you're glad you got that off your chest?

Not really.
But i hope you take it in how it was meant.
I think you have, rather than seeing it as an attack of some sort. I may have replied to you specifically, but it is an answer to all of what has been said on this thread.

I have had my fair share of people telling me i am feckless and lazy when i need to use a mobility scooter for example.
Its easy to point at people and say they arent doing enough when we assume that is the case. Its alot harder to try and grasp how fragile some peoples lives are, especially when they hide it.

The government do at least try and help those on low incomes here. The Eco schemes are designed to help out in such a way, but not everyone qualifies of course.
And the state of my install that the previous owner has done under the eco4 scheme shows that it is not always to the benefit of the intended recipient either.
I was actually quite appalled that the guy had the upgrades done to the house at taxpayers expense, then sold the house 1 month after they were completed.
It didnt stop us buying, but the pure cheek astounded me.
The plus is he not only didnt get a higher price for the house, which i expect was the intended outcome, he also wasnt able to benefit from whatever benefits there were.

As stinsy says there are people who game the system and take the biscuit. But it is always worth remembering there are genuinely struggling people out there.
I imagine it is a lot worse where the op was alluding to with the net billing scenario.