Tesla mileage discrepancies.

[GarethC]

Tesla are a bit notorious for underperforming their rated range by more than competitors. And in one test, a tesla conked out at almost exactly the same point as another EV, but the Tesla's odometer showed it having travelled significantly farther.

I just wouldn't put much past Tesla when it comes to trying to gain an unfair advantage.

[Mart]

Its a class action.

The named person on the filing is just the named plaintiff.
From what i gather for a class action to be filed there has to be at least 40 people signed up.
The filing states it is representing all owners of a tesla in the state of California.

I thought it could be done, if it is to benefit / impact more people.

I think the legal action against Elon's pay deal, which represented one minor shreholder was called a class action.

Although with my memory these days, I could be making it up.

Edit - Checked and the pay wasn't a class action suit. US doesn't seem to have a legal definition of minimum number needed, but 12 or more seems to be the accepted(ish) starting point.

[MikeNovack]

Fraud is a very high bar to set, and my understanding of the case is that no official investigation has been undertaken?

a) It would be VERY hard when argued "makes Tesla performance look better". Sellers are allowed a great deal of looseness with the truth when "touting wares".

b) It would be easy with regard to leases, and with contracts that are one-sided (take it or leave it; not negotiated) the presumption is against the contract writer.

HOWEVER -- yet to be determined the claimed odometer misrepresentation exists. Rather easy to test. LOL. in the old days, with any car i had, I at least checked odometer and speedometer using a stretch of highway that had survey mileage markers (every 1/10 mile). Not since moving up here in 1978 since I haven't seen any such stretches of marked highway.

[ivan]

The 'range' quoted for all electric vehicles tend to be rather fantasy-driven. In the old days, you have mpg at 30mph / 56mph / 70mph, and if you drove your car mainly at these speeds you'd see generally something similar to what was advertised, given correct tyre pressures and without excessive load on decent roads. Then they started doing the 'urban cycle' etc (which I think was originally based on a datalogger on an Oxford city bus) which started to deviate from what you'd actually see in real life. But the ranges quoted on electric vehicles must be based on continuous low-speed driving, as you won't come anywhere near it, even for careful light-footed sensible driving. Wonder how the government allows this when they've got such tight constraints on engined-vehicle claims.

[Marcus]

It does seem a little far fetched, but then VW and others were caught 'cheating' the emissions tests, and Apple slowing their phones down, so it's not totally out there. But if all teslas did this, there would surely be a lot more people noticing mileage discrepancy. I suppose tesla could have a 'problem car cheat': i.e. if a car is costing them a lot in warranty repairs, send it a 'get to 50,000 miles quick' firmware update.

Could it be done? Well, with a 'connected' car getting regular firmware updates, yes, probably; Is it worth teslas while? With the risk of getting caught? Doubtful.

[Oliver90owner]

I do check, on my car, that the journey distance agrees with that indicated by goggle maps (I often deviate from a goggle route to see if distance and journey times are altered by my modified route). I haven’t actually ever checked the increase in total mileage recorded - I’ve never needed to - but that might be necessary for some suspicious drivers of vehicles with OTA updates?

Thing is, if not checked out and substantiated before the class action started, anything ‘untoward’ could have been reversed by a more recent OTA update.

Everyone will have to wait and see what the real evidence shows to be the truth. Possible tesla meddling or disgruntled users (with musk or their car) trying it on - one or the other.

[dan_b]

Bjorn Nyland on YouTube does distance calibrations when ever he tests a car comparing the car's odometer with GPS and real-world known measurements. If I remember correctly in his tests Teslas were usually very close to completely accurate. Odometers (and speedometers) can over-read legally I think by up to 5% - but they can't underread!

[NoraBatty]

Its a class action.

The named person on the filing is just the named plaintiff.
From what i gather for a class action to be filed there has to be at least 40 people signed up.
The filing states it is representing all owners of a tesla in the state of California.

I thought it could be done, if it is to benefit / impact more people.

I think the legal action against Elon's pay deal, which represented one minor shreholder was called a class action.

Although with my memory these days, I could be making it up.

Edit - Checked and the pay wasn't a class action suit. US doesn't seem to have a legal definition of minimum number needed, but 12 or more seems to be the accepted(ish) starting point.

Not a legal scholar nor an american so i will take your word for it. Ive gotten the 40 signatures number in my head from somewhere though.

[NoraBatty]

HOWEVER -- yet to be determined the claimed odometer misrepresentation exists. Rather easy to test. LOL. in the old days, with any car i had, I at least checked odometer and speedometer using a stretch of highway that had survey mileage markers (every 1/10 mile). Not since moving up here in 1978 since I haven't seen any such stretches of marked highway.

Would only be the case in a blind test though wouldnt it?!
I cant imagine a company who is actively fiddling algo's to continue doing so after a filing in court, when more eyes will be watching.

I also expect that NHTSA would have to be open and honest about any testing it does to the manufacturer for legal reasons? They couldnt just pull any beaten up example off the street and test with that due to the anomolies it could potentially throw up.
There would have to be proper testing done and possibly on a group of the same car for continuity.

I dont know, but i imagine that any such testing by the authorities would have to happen under the guise of some kind of warrant. And in such circumstances the company would hardly do it then either would they.
That says nothing about the conflict of intetest between the cuts to the NHTSA who would investigate and Musk either, and all would depend on a formal investigation taking place.


From my perspective, we tend to only notice bigger anomolies, or those we have been told to look out for.
Ive never compared my cars odometer to the actual mileage. I work on estimates.
I onow its roughly a 20 mile round trip to the supermarket for example. I dont know exactly. So unless my clock said 80k miles next time i got in, knowing i drive roughly 4k miles a year, and the last MOT it was 46k on the clock, i wouodnt even bat an eyelid.

I do take much more care noting if the needle is on full each time.i fill up though. When i was 18, my 30 litre petrol tank in my car took 65litres of petrol to fill it. It was a faulty flow sensor in the pump. Had the bill not been over twice what i was expecting i wouod not have even noticed. But now i make sure when i fill up that the litres match the expected, and the needle is showing past full before i pay and drive off.
How many people just pay and drive off.
I dont know what the states is like for testing cars, over here the odometer has to be +/-2.5% of the actual.
But we also have yearly car checks called MOTs that check that the car is road legal and safe. Yet odometers are not tested as part of it.
Only the mileage is noted down officially for posterity.

With the suit progressing through the court it will either be dismissed, or discovery will be allowed. In that case Tesla paper trails, and data can be looked at.
We will know soon enough what is what.

[NoraBatty]

Bjorn Nyland on YouTube does distance calibrations when ever he tests a car comparing the car's odometer with GPS and real-world known measurements. If I remember correctly in his tests Teslas were usually very close to completely accurate. Odometers (and speedometers) can over-read legally I think by up to 5% - but they can't underread!

Not familiar with the channel.
Dors he test new, leased or used/secondhand?
As i said above i am under the impression the lawsuit is alleging only vehicles near the service mileage and or showing early signs of wear and tear are being manipulated. Im not even sure if its alleged to be happening worldwide given it is for "tesla owners residing in california"

One thing is sure there is not enough info or depth about the exact allegations to get a full picture. Yet.
If it genuinely was a group of airheads who consistently forget 3am trips to walmart alleging hyped mileage with no substantive proof to back it up, it very likely would have been thrown out already, and if not will be thrown out very soon.