Tesla mileage discrepancies.

[Stinsy]

Bjorn Nyland on YouTube does distance calibrations when ever he tests a car comparing the car's odometer with GPS and real-world known measurements. If I remember correctly in his tests Teslas were usually very close to completely accurate. Odometers (and speedometers) can over-read legally I think by up to 5% - but they can't underread!

Not familiar with the channel.
Dors he test new, leased or used/secondhand?
As i said above i am under the impression the lawsuit is alleging only vehicles near the service mileage and or showing early signs of wear and tear are being manipulated. Im not even sure if its alleged to be happening worldwide given it is for "tesla owners residing in california"

One thing is sure there is not enough info or depth about the exact allegations to get a full picture. Yet.
If it genuinely was a group of airheads who consistently forget 3am trips to walmart alleging hyped mileage with no substantive proof to back it up, it very likely would have been thrown out already, and if not will be thrown out very soon.

Depends who is funding the case!

If someone with deep pockets likes the fact that allegations against musk are being reported in the press then they'll pay the lawyers and the lawyers will keep the case alive. If the allegations are unfounded then the case will go nowhere, but it will keep going nowhere so long as the lawyers are being paid.

[dan_b]

Bjorn is a bit of a legend in the EV YouTube world. An absolute data nerd.


https://www.youtube.com/@bjornnyland

Bjorn Nyland on YouTube does distance calibrations when ever he tests a car comparing the car's odometer with GPS and real-world known measurements. If I remember correctly in his tests Teslas were usually very close to completely accurate. Odometers (and speedometers) can over-read legally I think by up to 5% - but they can't underread!

Not familiar with the channel.
Dors he test new, leased or used/secondhand?
As i said above i am under the impression the lawsuit is alleging only vehicles near the service mileage and or showing early signs of wear and tear are being manipulated. Im not even sure if its alleged to be happening worldwide given it is for "tesla owners residing in california"

One thing is sure there is not enough info or depth about the exact allegations to get a full picture. Yet.
If it genuinely was a group of airheads who consistently forget 3am trips to walmart alleging hyped mileage with no substantive proof to back it up, it very likely would have been thrown out already, and if not will be thrown out very soon.

[MikeNovack]

The 'range' quoted for all electric vehicles tend to be rather fantasy-driven. In the old days, you have mpg at 30mph / 56mph / 70mph, and if you drove your car mainly at these speeds you'd see generally something similar to what was advertised, given correct tyre pressures and without excessive load on decent roads.

Well ........ for decades over here we've had the same complaints about EPA figures for the mpg of gas and/or diesel vehicles. Vehicle owners complaining they get far less mileage in practice. Especially on the "city" part but also on "highway" (which is NOT continuous highway).

Hogwash! I am not saying this is not the experience of these drivers. It is their driving habits. I have always, every car I've driven, been able to equal or better the EPA figures. But other drivers in the household get about 10% less mileage. I am of course talking about summer driving*. It is all about "anticipation". Did you SEE that red light ahead? Take your foot off the accelerator, letting the car coast, arriving still moving as the cars ahead began moving when the light changed, so you never had to completely stop. Or like my grandson, drive up to that line of cars, stop, then resume.

* The only cars I've driven that did as well in winter were the Saabs. They had adjusting air intake heaters so the temperature of air in remained the same, winter of summer. Our current Subarus lack this and my experience in winter temps is about 10% worse than summer(and above freezing for this as the pressure drop as air speeds up in the intake lowers the temperature). The Saabs had the air pre-heat to prevent icing in the carb.

[NoraBatty]

Bjorn Nyland on YouTube does distance calibrations when ever he tests a car comparing the car's odometer with GPS and real-world known measurements. If I remember correctly in his tests Teslas were usually very close to completely accurate. Odometers (and speedometers) can over-read legally I think by up to 5% - but they can't underread!

Not familiar with the channel.
Dors he test new, leased or used/secondhand?
As i said above i am under the impression the lawsuit is alleging only vehicles near the service mileage and or showing early signs of wear and tear are being manipulated. Im not even sure if its alleged to be happening worldwide given it is for "tesla owners residing in california"

One thing is sure there is not enough info or depth about the exact allegations to get a full picture. Yet.
If it genuinely was a group of airheads who consistently forget 3am trips to walmart alleging hyped mileage with no substantive proof to back it up, it very likely would have been thrown out already, and if not will be thrown out very soon.

Depends who is funding the case!

If someone with deep pockets likes the fact that allegations against musk are being reported in the press then they'll pay the lawyers and the lawyers will keep the case alive. If the allegations are unfounded then the case will go nowhere, but it will keep going nowhere so long as the lawyers are being paid.

Its not up to the lawyers to keep a case alive though is it. Its up to a judge. There has to be merit for a case to be brought infront of a judge and continue through the courts.
What that means in principle, or the legal bar that has to be met , i do not know, but plenty of high profile civil cases are thrown out due to being unfounded.
Granted my legal knowledge of the US system is limited, but i do know there is an evidentiary hearing that has to take place where the judge decides if the case has merit to go forward or not.
Tesla is large enough to be able to afford decent lawyers who know how to get a frivolous case thrown out, especially on weak evidence.
Instead of being dismissed with prejudice the case was moved from state court to federal on Teslas request.

Mike may be able to tell us if that means a second evidentiary hearing has to be held and or if the bar is higher for civil claims in federal court than state. I dont know.

[Mart]

The 'range' quoted for all electric vehicles tend to be rather fantasy-driven. In the old days, you have mpg at 30mph / 56mph / 70mph, and if you drove your car mainly at these speeds you'd see generally something similar to what was advertised, given correct tyre pressures and without excessive load on decent roads.

Well ........ for decades over here we've had the same complaints about EPA figures for the mpg of gas and/or diesel vehicles. Vehicle owners complaining they get far less mileage in practice. Especially on the "city" part but also on "highway" (which is NOT continuous highway).

Hogwash! I am not saying this is not the experience of these drivers. It is their driving habits. I have always, every car I've driven, been able to equal or better the EPA figures. But other drivers in the household get about 10% less mileage. I am of course talking about summer driving*. It is all about "anticipation". Did you SEE that red light ahead? Take your foot off the accelerator, letting the car coast, arriving still moving as the cars ahead began moving when the light changed, so you never had to completely stop. Or like my grandson, drive up to that line of cars, stop, then resume.

* The only cars I've driven that did as well in winter were the Saabs. They had adjusting air intake heaters so the temperature of air in remained the same, winter of summer. Our current Subarus lack this and my experience in winter temps is about 10% worse than summer(and above freezing for this as the pressure drop as air speeds up in the intake lowers the temperature). The Saabs had the air pre-heat to prevent icing in the carb.

Just to say, in case you didn't know, Europe has a different test cycle for EV's than the US EPA.

Our WLTP range ratings are about 12-15% greater than the EPA ranges. So whilst the EPA figures appear to be somehing many drivers can achieve if they drive reasonably, the WLTP figures seem a bit silly. We also used to have the NEDC (not even damn close) figures that were higher again, and there's the Chinese range estimates using CLTC which are ridiculously generous.

The stupid thing is that the EPA figures use a simple 'fudge factor' of multiplying the test range results for a car by 70% (I think), to give the reasonably good EPA estimates. Suggesting that if the WLTP had a fudge factor of 0.85 (or if they already use one, it was altered accordingly) then the numbers would work better.

I only mention this, as folk seeing range estimates on for example a news article, or Youtube video, need to note what region/test cycle the figures refer to. Eg if it's talking about a Chinese BEV that has 400 miles of range, then that might be more like 300 miles at WLTP, or 260 miles EPA.

[Obviosuly this relates to estimated range from a battery charge, not the actual distance travelled as recorded by the odometer, as per the court case.]

PS @ Admin - Is there a prize for the most boring post ever made ....... asking for a friend?

[NoraBatty]

Just to say, in case you didn't know, Europe has a different test cycle for EV's than the US EPA.

Our WLTP range ratings are about 12-15% greater than the EPA ranges. So whilst the EPA figures appear to be somehing many drivers can achieve if they drive reasonably, the WLTP figures seem a bit silly. We also used to have the NEDC (not even damn close) figures that were higher again, and there's the Chinese range estimates using CLTC which are ridiculously generous.

The stupid thing is that the EPA figures use a simple 'fudge factor' of multiplying the test range results for a car by 70% (I think), to give the reasonably good EPA estimates. Suggesting that if the WLTP had a fudge factor of 0.85 (or if they already use one, it was altered accordingly) then the numbers would work better.

I only mention this, as folk seeing range estimates on for example a news article, or Youtube video, need to note what region/test cycle the figures refer to. Eg if it's talking about a Chinese BEV that has 400 miles of range, then that might be more like 300 miles at WLTP, or 260 miles EPA.

[Obviosuly this relates to estimated range from a battery charge, not the actual distance travelled as recorded by the odometer, as per the court case.]

PS @ Admin - Is there a prize for the most boring post ever made ....... asking for a friend?

Vaguely related but not so much, it used to be the same in the early days of solar panels. Probably still is in some areas of fleabay. Buy a 50W chinese panel and get a 5W one.
The only reliable way to get a 50W panel for the boat that was 50W was buy expensive brands, or go to the boat jumble and find the guy in the aussie cork srting hat. He sold decent panels but you had to solder on your own diode.
The amount of people in the marina or boat club you would see complaining about the validity of chinese Watts were unreal .
Things have moved on significantly since then but it made me laugh reading your post.

I had no idea about any of that either, so educational not boring.