Plug-in solar devices.

[Mart]

Actually ..... taking it a step further, how about AC side battery systems with a battery/inverter to home AC output of 800W or less, that's 14.4kWh over 18hrs (with 6hrs cheap rate to charge at ~2.5kW) .... hmmmm?

You want to take ~35kWh from the state daily after transmission and round trip charger->inverter conversion losses which might well be double that energy again if it originated as thermal energy at the powerplant...which likely might be a mix of incinerator recycling single use plastics & general combustable waste into electricity and atmosphere, fracked US leaky frozon methane LPG and Australian Coal all with massive transport embodied energy...
Then sell back less than half of that to them for profit translated into FIAT currency?

Legally sounds fine using the DNO network in the eventuality that they legalise it as postulated and Stinsy inferred.

I can't understand the benefit myself...I guess I got side-tracked on better implementations...

Not all kWhs cost the same...but they all have the same potential energy....there's no making sense of it, it's all manipulated...oh dear...I've spent too much time reading the matrix source code again...

Again, none of that seems to relate to anything I have posted or asked.

I simply suggested that the potential upto 800W (not 1.5kW as you went on to mention?) PV allowance, might allow for upto 800W feed to the house from a storage device.

That could provide (in my most extreme example) upto 14.4kWh (not the 35kWh you state) of storage from cheap rate.

I would hope that cheap rate implies (without the need for definition) excess night time generation, which will most likely be wind (not waste generation (that can demand follow) nor US LNG and Australian coal as you state).

Then you suggest selling back less than half, when I was simply getting excited at the possibility of home storage for many households, from cheap rate. A huge benefit to society I feel (better use of RE and cheaper bills, and possibly reduced peaks on the grid). No mention of selling back at all.


I thought this was a simple suggestion and question from me, with a simple guess answer from Stinsy, on the potential wider benefits of the small UK PV allowance, assuming it comes into force.

None of your responses seem to relate to anything I have said/asked. And if I'm understanding your confusing posts correctly, you are instead desperately trying to spin some strange negative instead.

PS, where exactly does the UK now burn this Australian coal for leccy?

[Mart]

I think the regs that would allow plug in solar would, by definition, apply to a battery system. They're all "generating plant" so far as the regs are concerned.

Depends on what you are plugging into. The regs apply only to "national grid connected installations".

Not true. (I didn't read the rest).

Clearly I have a lot to learn. I'll know better next time.

[Joeboy]

I have no idea what any of this has to do with my thoughts nor Stinsy's reply.

Perhaps we should get back to the 800W on grid UK DNO regulation review.

I hope it goes forward in s positive & swift manner.

The systems I have rarely if ever hit 800W generation and that is from 1000W of panels. Generally it will peak at 700 to 750W. There is no discernible heat from any of the components at that level. As we have experience with the arc of the day it is unless perfectly positioned and in orientation too unlikely that even that 750W generation will run all day. The other systems are less than 1000W and of no worry to me at all.

I'd like to see balcony solar go mainstream in the UK. Imagine all the background load that would be negated?

I don't have exact figures but I know that between No1 Son & I we are well into our second MWh of generation on the micro systems.

I can see the Govt take on this to be a massive overshoot in req's to protect the low hanging fruit.

Personally I absolutely love the 1/4 to 1/2 to 3/4 kW generated by these systems. It is visceral that feeling of not being beholden the "the man".

[Mart]

Totally with you Joeboy. I think I'm (a bit over) excited about this, because after adding two panels (in 2011) to replace the back door canopy in order to get the low roof string up to an inverter friendly voltage* - I've been suggesting that 2 panel systems as a canopy, sunshade over a south facing window, etc etc could help many. Of course the problem, so to speak, has been the DNO complications.

The generic term 'balcony solar' combined with the change now making wall mounted panels permitted development, is another way I think that the number of households that could benefit rises into the millions.

As mentioned earlier, no criticism of the regs, they are there to protect us, but if they can be revised that'll be fantastic.

I seem to remember some crazee guy adding panels to a porch roof, only days after I threw the idea out there as one of many possibilities.

*Remember those days before micro-inverters, low voltage inverters, and power optimisers made life easy. [Edit - or common knowledge of the solutions.]

[Moxi]

I remember in the old place always reading the Mastervolt topics with intense interest, especially Paul Boats work with his system and I think Peter C ? (who also had a wind turbine ??) Then there was the stecca grid rail system - I was saving like mad to try to be able to afford such things when they started with FIT's which became the better option.

I still think the market needs a low cost DIY capable micro grid offering to meet a specific group of people and their circumstances, so hopefully these safety issues and blockers will get addressed and appropriate solutions put in place at a sensible cost.

We shall see in the fullness of time if the UK legislature and free market are up to the task of delivering such a system as seems to be available to most other countries around the world.

Moxi

[Stinsy]

I remember in the old place always reading the Mastervolt topics with intense interest, especially Paul Boats work with his system and I think Peter C ? (who also had a wind turbine ??) Then there was the stecca grid rail system - I was saving like mad to try to be able to afford such things when they started with FIT's which became the better option.

I still think the market needs a low cost DIY capable micro grid offering to meet a specific group of people and their circumstances, so hopefully these safety issues and blockers will get addressed and appropriate solutions put in place at a sensible cost.

We shall see in the fullness of time if the UK legislature and free market are up to the task of delivering such a system as seems to be available to most other countries around the world.

Moxi

The challenge is that the prime beneficiary of these micro systems is the individual concerned. Whereas with rooftop solar, there is an entire industry of installers and accreditors who can make vast sums.

[Saladin]

Again, none of that seems to relate to anything I have posted or asked.

It all relates to the addition of a 2 -3 panel system.

I simply suggested that the potential upto 800W (not 1.5kW as you went on to mention?) PV allowance, might allow for upto 800W feed to the house from a storage device.

This I misunderstood. I thought you wanted to export it. If it's not leaving your house it doesn't concern the DNO.

That could provide (in my most extreme example) upto 14.4kWh (not the 35kWh you state) of storage from cheap rate.

If you import 15kWh that cost the planet between 35kWh & 70kWh from a central national powerplant. factoring losses in energy conversion & transmission.

I would hope that cheap rate implies (without the need for definition) excess night time generation, which will most likely be wind (not waste generation (that can demand follow) nor US LNG and Australian coal as you state).

Base load is usually FF

PS, where exactly does the UK now burn this Australian coal for leccy?

Australia supplies most of the world. Port Talbot use it for steel.

The systems I have rarely if ever hit 800W generation and that is from 1000W of panels. Generally it will peak at 700 to 750W. There is no discernible heat from any of the components at that level. As we have experience with the arc of the day it is unless perfectly positioned and in orientation too unlikely that even that 750W generation will run all day. The other systems are less than 1000W and of no worry to me at all.

Agreed hence I said 1500W. Is that irrelevant? I don't think so.

The generic term 'balcony solar' combined with the change now making wall mounted panels permitted development, is another way I think that the number of households that could benefit rises into the millions.

To me it's suggesting people put them in less than ideal shadey areas where their potential becomes curtailed. Ground mounts aren't often shaded by buildings.

As mentioned earlier, no criticism of the regs, they are there to protect us, but if they can be revised that'll be fantastic.

The moment it becomes my way or the highway then that becomes stiffling and a constraint on innovation & participation.
I'd not agree they are perfect. They are protecting a state monopoly and the privatisation of the means of production too.

I remember in the old place always reading the Mastervolt topics with intense interest

I ran a Soladin for a while with a 550W array...back in the old place.
Right lemon it was.
Turns on when the array produces 1W. Uses 30W self-consumption = 29W load in shadow.
My shaded low roof panels didn't get light until after midday then spent most of the rest of the day making up for the losses.

Sunny boys are better. The won't operate until after they can power themselves.

[Stinsy]

You keep writing stuff that simply isn't true!

A couple of examples from your last post:

This I misunderstood. I thought you wanted to export it. If it's not leaving your house it doesn't concern the DNO.

Completely untrue. The DNO is concerned with any inverter capacity that is connected to their grid. Even if no power is exported.

Base load is usually FF

Nope. Mainly Nuclear these days. With hydro, biomass and a teeny bit of gas.

I could go on. I don't see the point in nitpicking literally every part of everything you've written on this forum. However you really have got to stop writing stuff you've made up as if it is fact.

[chris_n]

Matter to whom?
The electrons...not really

Matter to the DNO, the whole point as I understand it, regarding permission for the addition of a grid-tied SSEG to the local network, without the need for any approval.

As I understand it, much of Europe has this permission, the UK doesn't. I'm not saying the UK is wrong, but if it revues the situation, and decides that these upto 800W(AC) PV systems can be allowed, then my question was to follow the logic, and suggest/ask if that leads to other varieties of 800W(AC) plug in devices.

Despite wading through a lot of irrelevant and often incorrect waffle I thought it might be of interest to let you know that in Austria and probably most of the rest of Europe you still have to notify the electricity supply company even with small systems. I haven't heard of anyone being refused such a system.
PS Stinsy keep calling the effluent out even though you missed a few

[Saladin]

I think we have vastly removed perspectives so our ascertations will differ. Let's not be binary about it.

For instance the DNO might be concerned but it doesn't concern them. The easiest way to remain compliant in such an arrangement is to not use their infrastructure. As I expressed in my irrelevant waffle.