UK Wind Record

[Oliver90owner]

Even Dinorwg is a relative ‘drop in the ocean’ even for daily storage, let alone longer term. The two problems which cause curtailment are a lack of distribution (from the edges of our grid system) and the need to retain some stations for a restart, after any widespread black-out - however that may be caused.

The grid has another couple of years to sort out those issues as they have stated their aim is to be able to run without gas by 2025(?). That, of course, not the same as doing entirely without fossil fuel generation.

[CrofterMannie]

Transmission charges are a big factor in killing the development of any pumped hydro schemes in Scotland (and there are at least 2 big ones that have planning permission and are more or less 'shovel ready').

Generators pay to 'transmit' power to the market. That charge increases from zero (or even negative iirc?) in the SE of England to about £8/Mwhr in most of Scotland. Pumped schemes effectively have to pay that twice as power is transmitted to them and then from them.

I recently heard of a pumped scheme proposed near the Stronelarig windfarm and immediately wondered if they were trying to connect it directly from wind farm to pumped scheme to cut out the grid and bypass one of the transmission charges.

[CrofterMannie]

[quote=CrofterMannie post_id=7625 time=1643314398 user_id=80

Guess who is booked on the morning ferry from Ullapool to Stornoway...... The afternoon one has already been cancelled due to the forecast.
At least my wife and kids might get an idea what the years I spent working on drillships & semis in the Atlantic were like.
[/quote]

After years of telling my wife about 130mph winds and 24m seas and how it was no problem.......I was sick in a bag on Fridays ferry and she was like a like a collie dog with its head out the car window loving every minute of it.

[Sunrisemike]

saw over 16 GW earlier on energy numbers , must have been close to a record

https://energynumbers.info/gbgrid

[Mr Gus]

After years of telling my wife about 130mph winds and 24m seas and how it was no problem.......I was sick in a bag on Fridays ferry and she was like a like a collie dog with its head out the car window loving every minute of it.
[/quote]


I feel for you, I used to live vicariously & throw myself from stupid things & heights, then one day I went on the tea cup ride with my daughter & life's not been the same since, age, time, motion sickness, ..bugger it ...The tea cup ride!? ..The shame I endure.

[Ken]

No point in building hydro storage costing billions to save curtailment costing millions if there are better and cheaper alternatives. Utility batts offer not only grid storage, although small in the big picture, but more importantly grid stability which will remove the need to always have some gas and coal plants running. It is these FF plants on spinning reserve which are dictating the leccy prices under the Nat Grids purchase scheme of "merit order bidding". Nat Grid are procuring the services of synchronous generators which also provide stability to the grid whilst not burning fuel (this working particularly well in S Australia who are opperating at high levels of renewables c70%).

As a country so far we have failed to fully utilise demand management such as TOU tariffs and i am very hopefull that EVs will take on this role which then of course will reduce the need for storage by charging at night when the problem of excess wind production usually occurs.

Then we have the role of Interconnectors who are able to take our excesses and of course we theirs at commercial rates. England absorbs the excesses of Scotland and allows them to operate at NET zero CO2 and hopefully England can do the same with EU.

[Joeboy]

No point in building hydro storage costing billions to save curtailment costing millions if there are better and cheaper alternatives. Utility batts offer not only grid storage, although small in the big picture, but more importantly grid stability which will remove the need to always have some gas and coal plants running. It is these FF plants on spinning reserve which are dictating the leccy prices under the Nat Grids purchase scheme of "merit order bidding". Nat Grid are procuring the services of synchronous generators which also provide stability to the grid whilst not burning fuel (this working particularly well in S Australia who are opperating at high levels of renewables c70%).

As a country so far we have failed to fully utilise demand management such as TOU tariffs and i am very hopefull that EVs will take on this role which then of course will reduce the need for storage by charging at night when the problem of excess wind production usually occurs.

Then we have the role of Interconnectors who are able to take our excesses and of course we theirs at commercial rates. England absorbs the excesses of Scotland and allows them to operate at NET zero CO2 and hopefully England can do the same with EU.

I disagree, Its not just about money and you haven't mentioned a timeline. Lets go for a thousand year battery that's non polluting has parts that can be changed out and fish can live in it and all the air breathing beasties that predate on them. Happy days. I'd far rather the country invested in that than Utility grid chem batt storage with a relatively short life span? I also like Hot Rocks,

https://www.rechargenews.com/energy-tra ... -1-1061093

The two have in common simple nonchemical parts for storing energy, that to my mind is a significant argument for larger storage in a non chemical fashion.

Go easy on 'allows them to' and best of luck with becoming net zero via exports to the EU. 'Allows'....

[Mart]

Whatever happens with storage, I have to say I'm far more happy with the bigger picture now than 10yrs ago. It seemed then that we would have to chase the last 20% or so of leccy, and still have two elephants in the room - space heating and transport.

Now we can hopefully keep pushing for higher RE leccy, allowing overcapcity (the cheapest initial step) and curtailment at first. Roll out storage of any and all kinds as it becomes economical, since reaching the '9's' or even the 'march of 9's' for RE leccy is actually less important for now, since we are shifting space heating and transport onto leccy. Even if we say stuck at 80% RE leccy whilst decarbonising those other sectors, that would be great and give us more time to test, develop or simply build longer term forms of storage.

I'm so glad Dan has spent years updating info on interconnectors as their expansion is also mind blowing and going back I'd missed the scale of growth, up to 7GW last year, 17GW by 2025, potential pipeline for 2030, is it 25GW?

I hope this waffle makes sense, but basically we don't have to solve leccy now*, we just have to reach and maintain a high percentage of RE as we increase leccy demand and clean up other 'tougher' sectors.

As a package - RE, leccy, transport, space heating, interconnectors, intraday storage, TOU, curtailment, longer term storage etc, I'm feeling so much better about it all than 10yrs ago.

[*Edit - I meant 'now' as in today, not now as in no longer. M.]

[Ken]

Mart,
Agree with you there.
I have a sneaky suspicion that the oil/gas industry is far more inefficient and polluting than is realised (aka dieselgate) and that to get rid of all that pollution etc is by far the biggest prize. Remember it takes 6kwh to get a gallon of fuel to the petrol pumps- 24mls in a EV but no one sums up the devastation caused both at the time eg spillages and flaring, and what they leave behind eg thousands of oil wells leaking methane
Ken

[Stinsy]

Mart,
Agree with you there.
I have a sneaky suspicion that the oil/gas industry is far more inefficient and polluting than is realised (aka dieselgate) and that to get rid of all that pollution etc is by far the biggest prize. Remember it takes 6kwh to get a gallon of fuel to the petrol pumps- 24mls in a EV but no one sums up the devastation caused both at the time eg spillages and flaring, and what they leave behind eg thousands of oil wells leaking methane
Ken

^this!

The FF industry is no-doubt way more polluting that is quantified or even quantifiable. All the little spills, leaks, non-ideal conditions, etc., together with all the "not counted" parts, add up to a horrendous picture.