Part ownership of a Ripple Wind Turbine, fancy it?

[nowty]

I have info from another camelot member who has had some protracted conversations with the technical guy at ripple which outlines the detailed issues of the delay for the grid connection. The main reason for the delay was to do with Wayleave agreements which are required by the DNO to run the electrical cables through various peoples land.

A guide can be found here, https://www.energynetworks.org/operatin ... -your-land

Note - I have edited the actual conversation slightly to make it a bit more understandable.

Wayleaves are the responsibility of the DNO, they could only conclude them once the detailed design and hence plans were produced. The detailed design depended on earthing studies which were an iterative process requiring input from the turbine supplier and the DNO. The ground conditions at the site were particularly difficult for earthing so that process took longer than expected. The cable route was also impacted by the drainage design which is impacted by the turbine delivery swept path analyses and later dry run results.

The project had a grid connection offer with the DNO WPD for a long time, but their programme could only be set once all wayleaves were in place. The last of those wayleaves was agreed over Christmas and exchanged in the new year. Covid also played a part in the delay as key personal were not always available.

[Paul_F]

Haven't followed this thread and it's too big to dig through, so apologies if this question has already been asked. How is the discount on bills treated for income tax purposes? I'm fortunate enough to be higher rate, so presumably if it's taxable I'm supposed to start filling in tax returns, etc.?

[Joeboy]

Nice to think we are in a 3 week countdown now.

To be able to cover home power and vehicle fuel costs from a clean source 500 miles away is literally the stuff of sci-fi.

I look forward to my Graig Fatha fueled runs down to Ayrshire once the works commence.

Go to Nardini's in Largs for an ice cream.

[AE-NMidlands]

Haven't followed this thread and it's too big to dig through, so apologies if this question has already been asked. How is the discount on bills treated for income tax purposes? I'm fortunate enough to be higher rate, so presumably if it's taxable I'm supposed to start filling in tax returns, etc.?

See around post 602, or use the search function for more...

[nowty]

Haven't followed this thread and it's too big to dig through, so apologies if this question has already been asked. How is the discount on bills treated for income tax purposes? I'm fortunate enough to be higher rate, so presumably if it's taxable I'm supposed to start filling in tax returns, etc.?

See around post 602, or use the search function for more...

Its treated as "interest", so if your higher rate (40%) you have a £500 allowance on top of your personal allowance. For the first 20 years you can take off 5% of your original investment from your annual rebate as that element is classed as a return of capital.

So if you don't normally fill in a tax return and your interest element of the rebate plus any other sources of interest doesn't exceed £500, you don't need to fill in a tax form.

There is a small chance the income might be classed as tax free if the tax office agrees to align the rebate with the domestic microgeneration exemption. But personally I doubt that will happen.

If your paying the really high rate (45%), the allowance is zero.

Basic rate payers get a £1000 allowance.

I think ripple have said they will send you a yearly tax statement similar to what you get from a bank or building society.

[TCA]

Haven't followed this thread and it's too big to dig through, so apologies if this question has already been asked. How is the discount on bills treated for income tax purposes? I'm fortunate enough to be higher rate, so presumably if it's taxable I'm supposed to start filling in tax returns, etc.?

The forecast returns are about 7% per annum. 5% of that will be return of capital, which isn't taxable. The rest, which Ripple call "trading benefit" in the latest share offer document, is taxable. What they can't confirm is how it'll be taxed.

The share offer document for Graig Fatha referred to interest income and the personal savings allowance. The share offer document for Kirk Hill also referred to interest income in parts but also mentioned the annual trading allowance. I asked Ripple which it was and they basically don't know. According to my recent email with their finance director, Ripple are "looking to open dialogue to treasury to clarify the position".

Here's the closing exchange from that chat with the Ripple Finance Director:

Me: "Given the required reporting to HMRC, are we however saying that the 'trading benefit' element is definitely taxable but we just don't know yet what the treatment will be? So it might be interest income or it might be self-employed income but we don't know until HMRC provide some clarification? Is that more or less where we are at the moment?"

FD: "Yes that’s correct, our first wind farm starts operating next month so we still have plenty of time until anything is reported but of course will clarify as soon as possible."

[AGT]

Morning all,

I’ve read all the pages on this and can’t refind the page where it advises info about the wholesale energy price to work out the returns?

Anyone able to help an old forum member?
Trying to work out how to convince SWMBO

Cheers

[AE-NMidlands]

Don't you have to deduce it from their explanation in one of their "How it works" videos?
Or maybe we have been told the wholesale price that has been agreed for the year. There is some confusion, because I definitely thought our returns varied depending on the hour-to-hour price, but now it seems to be the (variable) output multiplied by the agreed price.
It isn't a perfect system because we still have to pay the grid charges and other obligations, we effectively just get a reduction in (or money off) the price of the electrons.
A

[Joeboy]

Morning all,

I’ve read all the pages on this and can’t refind the page where it advises info about the wholesale energy price to work out the returns?

Anyone able to help an old forum member?
Trying to work out how to convince SWMBO

Cheers

I think it was 6.5p per kWh generated in your name then the fuel price surge and now about 8p per kWh for a year.

[nowty]

Morning all,

I’ve read all the pages on this and can’t refind the page where it advises info about the wholesale energy price to work out the returns?

Anyone able to help an old forum member?
Trying to work out how to convince SWMBO

Cheers

Its very difficult because no one knows what the wholesale price will be, there are market predictions, but most have been wrong. The operating cost of the windfarm is low and stable about 2 or 2.5p per kWh generated throughout its life, so the CoOp needs to sell the leccy to the energy supplier at least that price to remain in operation.

The CoOp sells the leccy to the electricity supply company through a Power Purchase agreement (PPA), usually at a year at a time for a fixed market price. The year ahead wholesale price for leccy at the moment is about 12p per kWh. So nominally the PPA would be say 12p per kWh, but the quirk is the energy supplier only pays the CoOp the operating cost, circa 2.5p and the difference is rebated to our energy accounts a month in arrears, so the first year PPA has been agreed with Octopus and the rebate will be 9.5p per kWh of your share of the generation.

The very long term prediction for wholesale prices is around 7p a kWh, so the rebate may average out at around 4.5p per kWh in a few years time if the market stabilises and goes back to normal conditions.

When the share offer for WT1 was announced, the rebate was forecasted to be only 3.5p because of Covid, but a few months after the forecast rebate increased to 4.5p, then 6p and now its 9.5p because the wholesale price of leccy is mainly driven by the price of gas.

Because WT2 will not be operating for another 2 years, they are using a wet finger in the air figure of 4.5p rebate. It could be higher or it could be lower.

But the main advantage to the investor is it de-risks large increases in your energy bills for the next 25 or 30 years. Because if the wholesale price stays high or even goes up further, then your rebate will increase offsetting your increased energy bill. If the wholesale price goes down, so will your rebate but then so will your energy bill.

As a financial investment, you may be better off buying shares in some of the commercial wind or solar farms, put them in an ISA and receive circa 5% tax free and you can sell them in the market anytime. But the ripple investment is more about building new capacity which might otherwise not be built and I believe its the closest thing you can do to offset your household carbon footprint verses other carbon offsetting schemes.