ASHP & triple glazing

[Joeboy]

Well that has been a great half hour. Booked 2 nights at a Cologne campsite for 24th & 25th Sept, my phone then rang and it was KSM getting back to me with a price. £19.5k. I of course hummed and hawwed rather than immediately biting his hand off!

Then i bit his hand off.

The price might decrease a little due to payment methods but that is easily the best quality gear at a killer price.

The trick here is overhead, they don't have much of one and are competitive. It helps that the job is a decent size too, they all spoke of that but KSM were genuinely honest in REALLY wanting to get it. Properly keen and professional.

The Bon accord guy who was nice enough BUT showed up 15mins late, had no business cards nor a 3g cut through.

I shall use him as a mental exercise in how not to do it. He can keep working on the quote and i'll post it when it comes through.
Great brochures though.

KSM were here 20 minutes early and sat round the corner waiting, he had a card and he supplied me with the name and No of his glazing supplier. I then went there and they were brilliant. Again, ponder on that control of overhead, storage, power etc by using the glazing supplier as your store and showroom. That's clever.

Then I had a shower, came downstairs and Mascagni Intermezzo was playing. It doesn't get much better than this.

I'll still do a price comparison when they're all in and present to the forum.

At the moment though... For £19.5k, not £32.5k...

14 of 3g argon filled low E toughened glass windows on 90mm Uw 0.7 upvc frames,
Three 3g fully glazed upvc patio doors & one 70mm composite door with a big 3g light in it (no letterbox).
New external upvc and internal composite cills.
One window brought back from picture framed to plasterboard, metal cornered, taped and all that.
Same key for all doors
Low level UPVC thresh holds (not aluminium ramp type), 54mm or similar.

Long warranty (for what its worth). I've sized the side hung casements with hinge wear in mind.

The biggest thing though and I won't dissemble, their willingness to work with me on the remedial thermal insulation but more than that, saves my back and they're pro's. I'm not.

[Joeboy]

We have used Nordan a few times at work
Livingston manufacturer.
Your own builder fits them?

They're doing the lot. I'll go to bank.

[Joeboy]

Joe, does your project preclude the use of your existing SH ?

While I can see the neatness of just ASHP heating, I also like the opportunity to stuff the SH on very cheap rate and also take the strain off the ASHP.

Also, do SH and WBS affect your grant application ?

From my perspective, not having some form of contingency heating is desirable.

Sorry if this has been discussed in other threads

Yep on SH's, keeping a few and for exactly those reasons. Great minds and all that

Good question on WBS & SH's. I don't think so on grant app? 7th Oct will be a learning day for me. I am looking forward to sending the request mail for end of gas contract and meter disconnection once the ashp has been agreed but i'll give swmbo the final power on that one.

[cojmh]

That sounds like an exception price - especially when you consider everything else they are doing .... I missed your earlier response about the zero 90 frames. That sounds like exactly the thing I need to ask for .... I foresee lots of phone calls in the near future.

Unfortunately I am going to have to compromise on the front door as I am prioritising security over energy efficiency .... but all the windows will make up for that

[Joeboy]

That sounds like an exception price - especially when you consider everything else they are doing .... I missed your earlier response about the zero 90 frames. That sounds like exactly the thing I need to ask for .... I foresee lots of phone calls in the near future.

Unfortunately I am going to have to compromise on the front door as I am prioritising security over energy efficiency .... but all the windows will make up for that

What sort of door are you fancying then for security?

The price is indeed great, I did say to the fella. "This means you can get your signwriter in to add triple glazing to the vans". The point wasn't lost on him. It has been an interesting week and I told every one of them that I've been in the glazing game. Best to be upfront and save them trying to speak shite to me. We got there in the end and fingers x'd it will go as I expect it.

One single thing bugs me though. The guy from Bon Accord glass handed me a glossy flyer from "their" door company saying how their door was 7.5 times more thermally efficient than a leading competitor (who I happen to be buying from). The thing that bugs me is that they were comparing a fully insulated 70mm composite door against a hollow core door.

The game hasn't changed that much from the 80's then? I do come across as an aggressive no nonsense type when I want to. Yet bawbag the salesman just couldn't help himself. I'll post a photo tomorrow before binning their brochures. Hopefully he's pulling heavy OT on the quote to nowhere.

Gasp, forgot to mention! It's bon accords 50th anniversary AND there's 20% extra off to celebrate. Wow, aren't we just the luckiest folk to walk the planet at the same time as this fortunate event?

Hopefully they'll develop a feeling of scarcity of time tomorrow and I'll just have to sign. It's all just SO exciting....

[MrPablo]

Thanks for documenting your journey Joe, it's been really useful for me.

I've got pretty ropey UPVC windows here, relatively thin double glazing and much of it was fitted by one from the Muppet Show.
I've been round foaming gaps, fitting reveal insulation, etc, but great to see what's out there if you go for a full upgrade.

Looking forward to pics during the install, it's all in the detailing and I have no doubt you'll be well on top of that!

[cojmh]

What sort of door are you fancying then for security?

I have been looking at Latham Steel Security Doors -> here

It will look like a normal PVC door from the outside (No glazing or letterbox) but is full steel construction all round including the frame. Have a look at the videos on their site (and others online) to get an idea of how strong they are. Basically it will be easier to go through the wall than the door.

As I live in metropolitan area and plan to get a nicer car once all the house work is done (few years yet!) I would just like additional protection and this door seems to do it. I also need to have the door opening outward to make it easier for wheelchair access so the hinges would be partially exposed as a result. However, as the door locks on all sides (19 points) you can completely cut of the hinges (which would need an angle grinder) and the door will still not be removable.

It is a big trade off in the sense that the u-value is 2.2 where as I would have liked it closer to 1 .... but for the few extra pounds a year and over specifying the windows I am making a personal choice to prioritise something else.

The building regs I have been given from building control have specified:

• Windows - 1.4

• Skylight - 2.2

• Doors - 1.4

but after a quick chat with building control about what I wanted to achieve they were happy to consider everything in combination so as my skylight is a u-value of 1.1 and windows will be way better than 1.4 they were happy to compromise on the front door being worse.

[Joeboy]

Thanks for documenting your journey Joe, it's been really useful for me.

I've got pretty ropey UPVC windows here, relatively thin double glazing and much of it was fitted by one from the Muppet Show.
I've been round foaming gaps, fitting reveal insulation, etc, but great to see what's out there if you go for a full upgrade.

Looking forward to pics during the install, it's all in the detailing and I have no doubt you'll be well on top of that!

Glad to help, it has been a week of complete brain drain and I am currently all glazed out. I am hoping we'll get the job done in the New Year as they are busy which is a good sign.

Forgot to mention, no trickle vents and no letterbox. A wall hung postbox instead.

Away to price up and check the spec on low expansion foams and tapes. My expectation is that they'll run a multi tool down the edge of the reveals about 20mm back so I wouldn't be adding anything there beyond tape to seal. Who knows though? I'd rather avoid bursting out but if it's called for, we will.

In saying that, its a 90mm deep window frame. More internal bursting will be needed anyway to bring outer window face inline with current external fix point.

However it turns out we've already agreed that if need be they'll move onto another window while I carry out remedial works then circle back once I'm out the way.

So far I am thinking tapes, foam, kingspan, earthwool if need be and hopefully not aerogel. I wonder if I need to spec the silicone seal ot is that over egging it?

[Joeboy]

Broke out the baby Flir and old build drawings, Upstairs windows have been in for twenty years and the newest 17 years. On the drawings the newest were to be low e argon filled U1.7 (I don't know if that was Uw or Ug). I'm assuming Ug as you'll see from the Flir photos of frames. 8 windows and 2 door sets, under three grand back in the day.

I'm happy having seen the Flir pics and read the spec on drawings for what I installed that the steel uprights are well insulated internally. We'll see what's what once the external facias come off.

The way I am reading the images is that the surrounding frame and finish detail at edge is significantly leakier than the 17 year old glazing units, which are themselves considerable leakier than the surrounding plasterboard covered and insulated steel posts?

I'll leave these photos up for posterity and hopefully to show the massive change once the job is behind us.






















Front door

[Joeboy]

Another great day. KSM booked in for 10am on 4th Oct for glazing survey/final spec/sizes. They are now the accepted 3g contractor at the agreed price. We've bounced ideas and expectations off each other and defined initial parameters. If we go beyond that in my pursuit of thermal break at this one time opportunity I'll gladly pay. Not told them that last yet but fairs fair.

Energy trust have approved me for applying for ashp grant. That survey is on 7th Oct at 10am by AASH.

I reckon Spring 25 and it'll all be in place. Off to Europe in the Bongo on Monday, heading for the Rhine in Koln.

Bon Accord glass, Pinefield and Glassworx have not quoted yet. Is there a lesson there?

Maybe it's "he who hingeth aboot geteth hee haw". (Victor Mcdade, Still Game).

While waiting on the ashp though...